colour neutral. is it worth it??

[fanwuq]

I'm personally against full color neutral cross. If you can color neutral, take advantage of your abilities and do petrus, where color neutral matter so much more. You can have the option of choosing your D face 3 times as opposed to once using Fridrich. Saving one or 2 moves on cross is not worth it considering a whole solve is about 50-60 moves. That's about 2-4% of the moves. Just a slightly better recognition can have a more impact on your time. So if you aren't comfortable with color neutral, don't do it. If you are, you can do color neutral cross, but I recommend Petrus.

 

[Hadley4000]

OK. Here is an argument for neutral/opposite color.

Let's say you got this scramble. Do cross on bottom.
F' U' F' D2 R2 D2 R' L F D2 R' D' R2 F2 D' B2 D' U' L B D' B' D' F' L

If you are neutral or do opposite color, this scramble can be amazing.


I realize that a scramble like that one wouldn't come up in competition. But, it is for argument.

 

[EmersonHerrmann]

Many people are dual solvers, I used to be (I am now happy with always doing a white cross). I believe that Lucas Garron only uses the yellow cross, since thats all I've seen him solve with, and many Japan cubers only use the blue cross (except for say, Syuhei).

 

[fanwuq]

OK. Here is an argument for neutral/opposite color.

Let's say you got this scramble. Do cross on bottom.
F' U' F' D2 R2 D2 R' L F D2 R' D' R2 F2 D' B2 D' U' L B D' B' D' F' L

If you are neutral or do opposite color, this scramble can be amazing.


I realize that a scramble like that one wouldn't come up in competition. But, it is for argument.

False, that is better for petrus.

But something like this is better for someone who happen to do the Correct cross.
(RBR'B'U'R2B'R2LFL2BRU2F2D2F2L'B2RF2B2U2L2)

 

[Hadley4000]

OK. Here is an argument for neutral/opposite color.

Let's say you got this scramble. Do cross on bottom.
F' U' F' D2 R2 D2 R' L F D2 R' D' R2 F2 D' B2 D' U' L B D' B' D' F' L

If you are neutral or do opposite color, this scramble can be amazing.


I realize that a scramble like that one wouldn't come up in competition. But, it is for argument.

False, that is better for petrus.

Well obviously that would be great for Petrus. I'm just saying that an opposite/neutral solver would probably have an easier time with it.

 

[Vulosity]

If you use Fridrich ,then its not worth being color neutral.

Color neutral only slows down your F2Ltimes. Of course, if you use Petrus, it'd be great to be color neutral.

 

[Hepheron]

Rowe is color neutral

 

[sam]

Team CN is sub 15. so i guess this is a Yes, color neutrality is fine. .

 

[ExoCorsair]

If you're already color neutral, no reason to switch.

 

[fanwuq]

If you're already color neutral, no reason to switch.

Very true. But if you aren't don't bother to switch if you are using Fridrich.

 

[Dene]

Team CN is sub 15. so i guess this is a Yes, color neutrality is fine. .

Darn, I wanna join team CN. I'm almost there!

 

[Faz]

what does CN stand for?

 

[ShadenSmith]

what does CN stand for?

Color Neutral.

 

[Dene]

That's my guess, too >.<

 

[blah]

(Note: I have a friend, Arthur, who solves either blue or yellow cross. )

Maybe. Maybe he can only recognize OLL/PLL with white as his U color, and he couldn't decide if his cube with the Japanese color scheme or the one with the American color scheme was better, so he thought, heck, I'll just get used to both crosses. Plausible theory?

 

[Stefan]

Yes, if you can always find the best color on the cube, then you save two moves overall.

5.81 - 4.81 = 2 ?

 

[brunson]

If you use Fridrich ,then its not worth being color neutral.

Color neutral only slows down your F2Ltimes.

Why would that be? If you were never color neutral and haven't spent a lot of time analyzing performance of a statistically significant population using some very well thought out experimentation, then that's just your opinion. When stated as a blanket fact it's worth exactly what we paid for it, i.e. nothing.

 

[brunson]

Yes, if you can always find the best color on the cube, then you save two moves overall.

5.81 - 4.81 = 2 ?

Okay, one. Whatever, that wasn't the point of the statement and when taken out of the overall context of the discussion is just nitpicking.

If you look only at the averages, then opposite color solving only saves you .59 moves per cross, what's the point of that? But you don't have the opposition to opposite color the way non-CN solvers seem to need to bash color neutrality.

Here's my take: If you haven't spent enough time doing single color cross and being color neutral to become equally proficient at both, then your opinion doesn't matter. It's like the classic flamewar between vi and emacs. Every emacs user I know can use vi proficiently, but agrees that emacs is better, the only people the espouse vi are people that can't use emacs. Draw your conclusions from that.

 

[MistArts]

No one mentioned that in Petrus, the first step, color neutral and opposite colors are the same.

 

[Lucas Garron]

I believe that Lucas Garron only uses the yellow cross, since thats all I've seen him solve with

I think opposite-color solving is just fine for me

(Note: I have a friend, Arthur, who solves either blue or yellow cross. )

Maybe. Maybe he can only recognize OLL/PLL with white as his U color, and he couldn't decide if his cube with the Japanese color scheme or the one with the American color scheme was better, so he thought, heck, I'll just get used to both crosses. Plausible theory?

Nope. He used blue, but for teamsolves (etc.) we needed to use a common orientation, so he learned yellow.

No one mentioned that in Petrus, the first step, color neutral and opposite colors are the same.

That's because it's not true.

I think we need a slight distinction here, between "doing" color-neutral solving -where you ignore specific colors- and "being" color-neutral -where you literally treat each color equivalently.
If you are trying to be color-neutral, but are still slightly slower on a certain color or are more likely to pick up a certain cross color first, you'd fall under the former. If you're Johannes, maybe the latter.

EDIT:
Okay, one more thing:

If you use Fridrich ,then its not worth being color neutral.

Color neutral only slows down your F2Ltimes. Of course, if you use Petrus, it'd be great to be color neutral.

Why should those two statements be that way? Could you explain why it shouldn't be that
"Color neutral only slows down your Petrus F2Ltimes. Of course, if you use Fridrich, it'd be great to be color neutral."
Color neutrality also takes some effort for Petrus, and it can be a great thing to be color neutral for Fridrich.