Older cubers discussions

[Kattenvriendin]

Yeah that is how I do it as well.

Pay attention that you don't hold the cube the wrong way when centering the rest though. I did that a few times and OH MAN what a pain in the tush that is when you start the 3x3 phase ROFL.

First you put in a pair, then the nex.. uh.. huh what.. looking again, take pair out (getting a good time is ruined at this point already), reinsert with you actually looking.. start doubting your sanity.. realizing it IS in the right spot but.. ohhhhhhh it's flipped! Oh Bupkis (in this case mit Kuduchas)... :fp

 

[MarcelP]

So today I did an Ao50 ( did not find the time for 100) on WHITE only:

Mean: 27.32
Average: 27.43
Best time: 16.31
Median: 27.38
Worst time: 32.85
Standard deviation: 3.19

Best average of 5: 24.32
44-48 - 24.06 24.93 (29.86) (16.31) 23.98

Best average of 12: 26.01
1-12 - 22.52 26.49 25.54 23.84 25.94 29.91 28.36 28.13 26.18 (32.41) 23.20 (22.26)

47. 16.31 U2 B2 D R2 F2 R2 U2 F2 L2 D' R F' U F2 U' B' R U' B' F2
(that is my second best single PB, and it was a full solve!!!)


Although I did not break my Ao12 PB (CN) I feel solving on white is easier. The Ao50 average is better than my CN average. Still I see myself not going back to solving white only. These where the first pure white (which forces me to do hard crosses aswell) in 8 - 9 weeks. I will do this a few more times over the next few days. These times might improve a bit since I have been avoiding white crosses for the lasttwo months. Let see what happens..

 

[Kattenvriendin]

I reverted back to the white crosses, my times are significantly faster, however I DO find that I have gotten better at building the crosses during inspection in the first place so that must help, I simply know which color goes where much faster on white.

(and with Eindhoven coming up.. heh )

Curious what will happen with your times though now!

 

[MarcelP]

Curious what will happen with your times though now!

I could not resist to do another Ao50 on white crosses.

Mean: 26.94
Average: 26.91
Best time: 20.25
Median: 27.25
Worst time: 35.02
Standard deviation: 3.33

Best average of 5: 24.60
24-28 - (20.96) (28.34) 24.99 22.80 26.00

Best average of 12: 25.19
26-37 - 24.99 22.80 26.00 28.18 27.20 21.27 26.42 28.37 (29.55) 23.33 (20.25) 23.29

I broke my Ao50 average PB, Ao12 PB and Mo3 PB.. Still I am kind of bummed that I am faster at white crosses. I like to think of it this way, I became faster on white crosses because of my hard work on color neutral

 

[Kattenvriendin]

Aww hehe.. don't be bummed.

I think you need to do AT LEAST as long color neutral as you have been doing white, and what you learned first just wants to stick best.

Wonderful times there!!

 

[MWilson]

I reverted back to the white crosses, my times are significantly faster, however I DO find that I have gotten better at building the crosses during inspection in the first place so that must help, I simply know which color goes where much faster on white.

(and with Eindhoven coming up.. heh )

Curious what will happen with your times though now!

You can, but you don't need to memorize the colors around each cross. You can tell intuitively instantly using what I explain in the color neutral thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?34834-Color-Neutral-Transition-Thread&p=822936#post822936

 

[Kattenvriendin]

Unfortunately my brain is the odd one out. I cannot fathom the obvious and not obvious, unfortunately. Differently wired lol

 

[mark49152]

Nb perm:
R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' U' R U' f R f'
This is the one I currently use but actually I hate it and it's my least favourite PLL.

I'm thinking of switching, maybe to this one:
R' U R U' R' F' U' F R U R' F R' F' R U' R

Have you guys seen jskyler91's Nb video? Feels weird at first but after a couple of hundred drills it actually feels quite easy and smooth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GCx5AyFCh0

I've knocked over a second off my G and N perms in the last couple of days, thanks to these vids!

 

[MarcelP]

Have you guys seen jskyler91's Nb video? Feels weird at first but after a couple of hundred drills it actually feels quite easy and smooth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GCx5AyFCh0

I've knocked over a second off my G and N perms in the last couple of days, thanks to these vids!

Yes, I have been using it for a while. I could not get used to it. I think I will do them a couple of hundred times tonight to see if it will kick in with me aswell.

Also I just did a quick Ao12 on color neutral:

Mean: 27.45
Average: 27.54
Best time: 20.85
Median: 28.13
Worst time: 33.17
Standard deviation: 3.06

Best average of 5: 25.60
2-6 - (20.85) 24.48 28.19 (29.05) 24.13

Best average of 12: 27.54
1-12 - 28.27 (20.85) 24.48 28.19 29.05 24.13 30.78 28.37 27.13 28.06 (33.17) 26.92

Not too bad.. but also not even close to White cross times

 

[mark49152]

What are your conclusions on CN? Is the benefit of being able to select easier crosses worth more than the benefit of being super-familiar with one colour orientation?

 

[MarcelP]

I have been doing cross only solves on CN and on white. Both average 4 seconds for me. So it seems that I have nothing to gain there. However, in an Ao100 it is easier to pick an easy cross on CN since you do not have to concentrate as hard as I would on getting the 4 seconds on a not so easy white cross. Overall I would say solving CN is slower (for me). Because I do not master the X-cross. If you are an X-cross ninja, than CN is only way to go.

I prefer CN over (the faster white crosses) because I think it is more fun. And solving slow CN helps me train lookahead, which helps me also on white crosses.

 

[mark49152]

solving slow CN helps me train lookahead

Does CN slow down your F2L, or LL recognition? Even if it makes you solve F2L slower, how does it help lookahead if you're burning more brain cycles on tracking different colour orientation?

 

[MarcelP]

CN slows down F2L. In the substep race have I been doing LL on all other colors but yellow. No problems there.

But solving CN in F2L forces you to look at the corner first and then find the matching edge. In CN training I can now look for the next pair while solving the current. In white cross solves your brain is already used to the colors. So if see an edge first, your brain knows what corner has to go with that edge. And this way you can turn really fast and look for pairs AFTER solving the current. I can get sub 30 averages on white cross without any look ahead. However, if I slow down like on CN solves and start with a corner and find the edge while solving another pair I get faster times. Low 20's are more frequent. So to sum up, CN training helped me look ahead for next pairs Today I had a 20 second solve on blue.

EDIT: Sneaklyfox did an Ao12 on white cross before one month CN training and one after:
Before 17.49, after 16.77. And Kattenvriendin had a 45 seconds white cross average (correct me if I am wrong Y.) and after CN traing so flipped to 35 second PB on white cross.. So training CN has it's advantages I averaged around 30 seconds when I started CN training. I graduated in the sub30 race one week before. Now I have an Ao12 25.19 PB. I really think it has to do with CN training.

 

[mark49152]

Do you always use corner bias? Did you learn it deliberately, or just acquire it as habit? Did you always do it, or start it for CN?

 

[MarcelP]

I never used it on white. But you NEED it in CN solving. Because when you solve for example RED cross you do not know what edges are part of the top layer untill you find a red corner and see that there is a yellow and blue sticker on the corner aswell. Maybe true CN solvers will have all the colors in their head like most of us have with white cross. Solving white only will train your brain to ignore yellow pieces during F2L. Therefore you do not have find a white corner and find corresponding edge. You just see green/red egde and you immediatly know it's part of you F2L. In CN solving that would be a tough task I think.

 

[mark49152]

That makes sense. I'm trying to figure out how to get past my F2L plateau. I read Chris Hardwick's original analysis of corner bias and it makes sense, except the real problem (to me) is not finding the first piece, it's finding the second piece. Because, for the first piece you have free choice but for the second there is only one matching piece and finding it is harder. Many of my F2L stalls are caused by not seeing quickly enough where that second matching piece is. So an argument that visibility/findability of corners is better than for edges, seems to me to favour edge bias. At the moment I don't think I have a bias.

Not sure whether I will try CN, it sounds like a lot of work, but I'd like to try a different approach to F2L training. I'm not really motivated to become CN but if it's a useful technique for improving F2L I'd give it a go.

 

[Kattenvriendin]

It improves F2L, take my word for it. I am now back on white only, but doing CN trains you in finding pairs in ways on white only does not. Recognition is much faster for me now, lookahead has improved.

 

[MarcelP]

I would say, give it a go. At first expect your times to change for the worst.. My first averages on Blue cross where 45+.. In a day I had them down to 35 secs.

 

[mark49152]

Would dual give the same benefit, do you think? Or perhaps just training with one different cross colour for a few days? Or would I really need to put the weeks into CN training to see any difference?

 

[MarcelP]

Dual is not the same. It is the same color filter which you brain already knows.. That's why I skipped yellow training in the CN transition. Just do a few days blue and see what will come from it. You can always go back to white. Be sure to watch the jskyler video in the color neutral transition thread. I love his vids.