Older cubers discussions

ThomasJE said:
Are you opposite colour neutral (white and yellow)? I did think of doing that before I switched to ZZ, in fact I may still do that with ZZ.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's worth it to be any type of cn with zz, a big advantage of zz is that you get extremely familiar with your color scheme and once you see a piece you automatically know where it goes.
 
uvafan said:
I don't think it's worth it to be any type of cn with zz, a big advantage of zz is that you get extremely familiar with your color scheme and once you see a piece you automatically know where it goes.
Click to expand...
I agree, and it's not like you can choose which color is best to use during inspection time, since inspection time is spent on planning the EO line.
 
omer said:
Since I was always color neutral this is something I don't really get - how is solving on orange any different than any other color? why do colors have so much importance when you solve?
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I do understand completely.. When I solve on white I know to ignore yellow during F2l. That means, any edge that has no yellow is part of a pair. So you do not have to look for white corners alone. during look ahead I do not specificly look for corner first. When solving on a different cross color, I have to start with a corner from that cross color and that look at the corner which other two colors are there, then look for that freaking egde that comes aloing in that pair. Takes litterally seconds.. LOL.. I did improve again already.. had a Ao12 of 36 seconds on green.. If I get a sub 30 Ao12 in 5 days, I will swear by color neutral. If not I will stick to yellow and white crosses.
 
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MarcelP said:
I do understand completely.. When I solve on white I know to ignore yellow during F2l. That means, any edge that has no yellow is part of a pair. So you do not have to look for white corners alone. during look ahead I do not specificly look for corner first. When solving on a different cross color, I have to start with a corner from that cross color and that look at the corner which other two colors are there, then look for that freaking egde that comes aloing in that pair. Takes litterally seconds.. LOL.. I did improve again already.. had a Ao12 of 36 seconds on green.. If I get a sub 30 in 5 days, I will swear by color neutral. If not I will stick to yellow and white crosses.
Click to expand...
I never thought about it this way, the part with the edges. I always look for a corner and then look for its edge - maybe this is why I'm really bad at look-ahead. I will try that edge logic you talked about - every edge without the opposite color of the solving color is a pair edge.
 
MarcelP said:
If I get a sub 30 Ao12 in 5 days, I will swear by color neutral. If not I will stick to yellow and white crosses.
Click to expand...

Just had my first sub 30 solve on green:

Best average of 12: 35.30
37.49 38.82 35.69 30.96 31.45 37.16 33.69 37.05 38.23 32.42 (29.57) (39.06)

So I am getting more and more less sceptic. This actually might work.. :o
 
uvafan said:
I don't think it's worth it to be any type of cn with zz, a big advantage of zz is that you get extremely familiar with your color scheme and once you see a piece you automatically know where it goes.
Click to expand...

But you could say this with any method that you use a fixed colour scheme with.

omer said:
I agree, and it's not like you can choose which color is best to use during inspection time, since inspection time is spent on planning the EO line.
Click to expand...

It may not be the colour that benefits us; it could be doing the EOLine. If you do a x2/y2/z2 rotation, the unoriented edges will still be unoriented. So, if you end up with an EO case that requires B and D turns, you can do a x2 rotation to turn that into F and U turns without affecting the orientation of the edges, and that could lead to a marginally faster EOLine.

I may make this post in the ZZ thread; this isn't the place to really discuss this.
 
Today I did on the train to work about 75 slow solves on green. And tonight without warming up I did 12 timed solves on green.

average of 12: 37.94
39.51 41.00 38.77 (45.07) 39.37 38.63 37.05 (28.20) 33.88 36.71 41.61 32.91

The 28.20 was nice but I was hoping for a better average. Oh well.. maybe tomorrow. no more time to practice today.
 
You asked me if I was CN, so I made this
L2 B2 F2 R' U2 B2 D2 R2 F2 L' D2 B R' U2 F' L F D' R2 B'
D R2 L' U2 D2 B' L F' D L' U F2 D B2 D2 L2 B2 R2 D' R2 D
L2 F2 D R B' L F' L2 U B' R D2 B2 R' F2 L' F2 L' F2 U2 D2
R' D F2 D' R' U L D F R D2 F2 R2 U2 R B2 R' U2 D2 R2
R' D' F' D' F R B' R U F' U2 R2 U2 D2 L D2 L U2 L' F2 R'

single
best: 20.30
worst: 44.63

Average: 27.54 (σ = 5.37)
Mean: 28.20

Time List:
White: 24.93, 20.88, 23.09[PLL], 21.59, 21.86=22.18 (σ = 0.80)
Yellow: 21.46, 27.71, 22.78, 20.30, 24.68=22.97 (σ = 1.62)
Blue: 24.84, 44.63, 26.81, 28.86, 26.03=27.23 (σ = 1.46)
Orange: 41.34, 21.84, 26.96, 30.19, 39.65=32.27 (σ = 6.59)
Red: 24.30, 28.09, 27.53, 29.53, 32.19=28.38 (σ = 1.03)
Green: 37.91, 24.90, 44.09, 25.68, 31.33=31.64 (σ = 6.12)
I took the first 5 scrambles from the substepcomp and solved with W,O,B,O,R and G
Overall I'm CN, but by color I'm not with O and G.
 
Schmidt said:
You asked me if I was CN, so I made this
L2 B2 F2 R' U2 B2 D2 R2 F2 L' D2 B R' U2 F' L F D' R2 B'
D R2 L' U2 D2 B' L F' D L' U F2 D B2 D2 L2 B2 R2 D' R2 D
L2 F2 D R B' L F' L2 U B' R D2 B2 R' F2 L' F2 L' F2 U2 D2
R' D F2 D' R' U L D F R D2 F2 R2 U2 R B2 R' U2 D2 R2
R' D' F' D' F R B' R U F' U2 R2 U2 D2 L D2 L U2 L' F2 R'

single
best: 20.30
worst: 44.63

Average: 27.54 (σ = 5.37)
Mean: 28.20

Time List:
White: 24.93, 20.88, 23.09[PLL], 21.59, 21.86=22.18 (σ = 0.80)
Yellow: 21.46, 27.71, 22.78, 20.30, 24.68=22.97 (σ = 1.62)
Blue: 24.84, 44.63, 26.81, 28.86, 26.03=27.23 (σ = 1.46)
Orange: 41.34, 21.84, 26.96, 30.19, 39.65=32.27 (σ = 6.59)
Red: 24.30, 28.09, 27.53, 29.53, 32.19=28.38 (σ = 1.03)
Green: 37.91, 24.90, 44.09, 25.68, 31.33=31.64 (σ = 6.12)
I took the first 5 scrambles from the substepcomp and solved with W,O,B,O,R and G
Overall I'm CN, but by color I'm not with O and G.
Click to expand...

What do you mean that you are CN overall? The averages don't support that.
 
sneaklyfox said:
What do you mean that you are CN overall? The averages don't support that.
Click to expand...

Yes, I see a difference in white and yellow compared to the rest of the colors. However. If I got these times I would also call myself color neutral overall.

moralsh said:
You just have to post your progress there every now and then and be a nice guy overall, that or being dutch and 43, pick one :p
Click to expand...

LOL. I think being Dutch and old helps a lot.
 
Ok, I did about 100 - 200 slow solves on green the last 4 days. Today I did a timed Ao50.
ColorNeutralAo50OnGreen.png


The first few solves of today where closer to a minute. You can see that my brain had not adapted to green cross. However.. after a warming up of 10 solves or so it gets in the green mode again. I dare to say that my color filter has been set. Looking at the averages, an Ao12 of 31.31 and an Ao5 of 28.15 is rediculous fast for only 4 days of training. I did Ao12 on white cross to see if everything is still OK. But got a 36 seconds.. It scared the bejezus out of me.. But then I figured, that is all part of the transition. When solving on white now I do the same as with solving on green. I start to look for an corner containing white and then look what the other two colors are. So my color filter for white has not been set. anyway.. I am a believer now. I will continue on CN training. I might even set me back one or two months (although I doubt that) but I really enjoy it.
 
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I was planning to leave CN for some time later, but I just couldn't resist doing some solves on green today:

Rubik's cube, cross on green
04-ene-2013 11:22:29 - 12:10:59

Mean: 39.65
Average: 39.10
Best time: 30.45
Median: 38.54
Worst time: 1:07.41
Standard deviation: 6.85

Best average of 5: 35.19
32-36 - 37.07 34.39 (43.39) (31.28) 34.11

Best average of 12: 35.82
25-36 - 32.03 34.20 37.62 39.14 34.31 36.75 38.62 37.07 34.39 (43.39) (31.28) 34.11
1. 40.78 R2 B2 F2 U' F2 U L2 D L2 D2 B L2 B' R B F' R F' U2 F2 U'
2. 40.82 U2 R2 B2 D' F2 U2 B2 U L2 U2 B' U F2 R' B' R D R L D'
3. 38.77 B2 F2 D' L2 F2 L2 U F2 R2 L2 U2 R F D2 B R2 U F D' B' F' U'
4. 40.24 F2 U F2 U2 L2 D' B2 U' R2 U' F2 R F' U L' B F2 R' B2 L U'
5. 41.41 F2 D B2 U L2 F2 U2 B2 F2 R2 D' B' D L F' U' R2 B2 D2 L'
6. 51.84 D2 B2 L2 F2 D' F2 U' L2 F2 U F2 L' D F D R F2 R' B L'
7. 36.59 B2 D' U2 B2 U B2 R2 D2 B2 R2 F' R' D' B R' B' U' F2 L2 F U2
8. 38.87 U B2 F2 D' F2 R2 U B2 U' B2 U' B L' U2 B L D' L F' L U2
9. 42.34 R2 F2 U F2 D' F2 D' R2 D' R2 U R' L' D' B F2 R2 U' B' D F2 U2
10. 50.27 D' B2 R2 L2 U F2 R2 D' U2 B2 U2 B R L' F2 R' D2 U L F2 L'
11. 30.45 U2 B2 U' F2 U R2 U2 R2 B2 L2 F D' U2 B2 F D R' L2 F L'
12. 36.41 U' L2 F2 U2 F2 D L2 F2 U2 F2 D2 F L' B2 L D' U B2 R2 L2
13. 35.68 R2 F2 U' R2 L2 D' R2 U' L2 U2 R' L' U' F L U' B' R U F' D2
14. 41.64 R2 U2 F2 L2 D' R2 D2 L2 D R2 D L B2 R U L F' R' L2 B2 R2
15. 1:07.41 D2 L2 D F2 D B2 R2 L2 D B2 R' D' B2 U B R B U B' L
16. 53.89 L2 F2 L2 U L2 F2 D' B2 U L B' R' U L' U2 F D' R F U
17. 37.04 D2 F2 D' L2 B2 U2 L2 F2 D2 F2 R D' B' U2 F' L D' F R2 F2
18. 36.04 R2 U L2 D R2 D B2 F2 R2 F2 U R F' D' R' L' U2 B2 L' U
19. 38.46 L2 F2 U' R2 U2 L2 B2 D' U2 L2 U' R' B F L B2 F' U2 B R U
20. 40.42 F2 U B2 U L2 B2 L2 F2 D2 F2 U' B' F2 R L B' D' B D' F' R D'
21. 36.71 U2 F2 R2 L2 D2 U R2 U' B2 U L' B' L2 D2 R' L' D R U F U2
22. 41.33 B2 R2 D U B2 D' L2 D' R2 L2 U' L' B' D2 U' L' B U' R F D2
23. 37.79 B2 U B2 U2 F2 R2 L2 D' F2 L2 D2 R' B' R B2 D2 B' R2 L' D2 L'
24. 39.24 R2 U2 R2 L2 U' B2 D' F2 D' F2 U' R D B2 D2 U' B F U' L F D2
25. 32.03 U' F2 U L2 U2 F2 L2 D' L2 B2 U R' D L B' R F2 R' U2 F' D2
26. 34.20 U2 B2 L2 D R2 D' L2 U' F2 U2 B' L2 D2 R U2 B L D' U' L
27. 37.62 R2 U2 L2 F2 D L2 D L2 B2 L2 F L' B F' D' R L2 D' B' U2
28. 39.14 F2 L2 D2 L2 D B2 F2 D' L2 U2 L2 F' D B' R2 U2 R D L D U'
29. 34.31 D' R2 D2 R2 B2 U' F2 U R2 B2 U2 B R2 U R2 F2 L' B D2 L2 U'
30. 36.75 L2 D2 B2 D' R2 D2 U B2 R2 D' F R B D L U B R' L' D' U'
31. 38.62 U2 L2 D' F2 L2 D R2 B2 U' L2 F2 L' U2 B D2 R2 D' R2 L' D R
32. 37.07 F2 L2 D' U' L2 F2 L2 U B2 D2 U2 B U' B' F R B2 D2 R' B' R2 U'
33. 34.39 F2 R2 D' L2 F2 R2 U2 B2 U B2 U F D' R2 B D U2 F R' B' U2
34. 43.39 L2 D2 B2 U' B2 U L2 B2 L2 D' L B' F U' L F L D R' F2
35. 31.28 B2 D2 B2 R2 D2 R2 U' B2 F2 R2 U R' B U B L' F2 U' B R' F'
36. 34.11 U2 R2 U' L2 F2 L2 B2 U F2 R2 F2 L B D' F2 U' L' B' F' U F' D2

I find the cross the hardest part, the pairing seems awkward at the begining but once you get used to it seems easier. I think I could get to speed on the different colors doing solves on the same color always, but I find it very hard to adapt from solve to solve, I'l try to solve on a different color often and I'll join you on the sub-30 race once I graduate from white cross solving (which may take some time) if you're not graduated already (which may not take as much time as you think!)

I tried also to solve a couple of times with no inspection, awful, around the minute :p
 
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Those are great times Raul. I think it will take a while before I have all colors in my 'filter';) Maybe after learning one I will loose an already learned filter. Who knows.. ;) I will start with blue crosses tonight. I have tried a few already in the last few days. And blue seems easier than green. I don't know why...
 
I'm by no means an expert in neither CN nor switching to CN, but I think you should also try a few real CN solves everyday, inspecting the cube and choosing the easiest cross, this way whenever you end your specific color training you will have some practice in looking for crosses on other colors.

I'll try different colors during the weekend to see which one is my green, green itself looks like a good candidate, though
 
moralsh said:
nor switching to CN..
Click to expand...

My goal is to actually switch. Reason, if all fails I can always go back to be single cross solver. I want to switch because crosses are my weakest part. I still have over 5 seconds on hard crosses. I think finding the easiest crosses in CN is the only advantage of being CN. Some people say their lookahead has improved. Well for me that is not the case. I finally started to look for the next pair while solving the previous. Right now with CN, I have nu clue of what egde I will have to find before I look at the corner. Maybe after all cross colors have set their filter in my brain this might come back to me. And then I will be just as fast on all other colors as I was on white, but with the big advantage of nice crosses ;)
 
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