Should we ban pillowed 7x7x7s?

[StephenC]

In the discussion of banning the use of stickerless cubes in BLD, it was pointed out that this was also inconsistent. Why should stickerless cubes be banned for the sake of consistency, but not pillowed 7x7x7's? Clearly when there were no other 7x7x7's, for 7x7x7 to be an event people had to use them. This is however inconsistent with the regulations, which do not allow pillowed cubes to be used in competition. Since there is a cubic 7x7x7 available, should we ban pillowed 7x7x7's?

 

[samchoochiu]

the event itself should be removed

 

[tx789]

No what if you like you v cube cube better and it doesn't show as much of the left and right face when it's front on as much as a 3x3 for example and v cube will have a fit think of people with small hands

This has been brought up when the shengshou 7 first came out

 

[ThomasJE]

No what if you like you v cube cube better and it doesn't show as much of the left and right face when it cr

What if you liked stickerless cubes more?

I think they should be banned.

 

[tx789]

What if you liked stickerless cubes more?

I think they should be banned.

There have been legal for 4 1/2 years. Still it's the wca's choice

 

[Erik]

Still it's the wca's choice

We all are the WCA, if the community doesn't support the delegates and boardmembers, there's nothing left.

 

[bobthegiraffemonkey]

I think this would be an even worse idea than banning stickerless cubes. Pillowed 7x7s have always been legal (unlike stickerless which has a more controversial history), and many people have used them. Banning them would therefore seem to be less consistent to me. This ban wouldn't affect me personally in a practical sense since I've switched to SS7, but I'm strongly against the principal.

 

[Felix1996]

But wouldn't that be unfair? Because former 7x7 wr's were made with a pillowed cube. So the former wr-holders have an advantage..
Still.. I'm using a cubic one, but to me it doesn't make sense to ban pillowed 7x7s, because they have been allowed for so a long time.. in my opinion that wouldn't change anything.. except for less 7x7 solvers in competition, because not everybody who has a v7 wants to buy a shengshou..

 

[Muesli]

But wouldn't that be unfair? Because former 7x7 wr's were made with a pillowed cube. So the former wr-holders have an advantage..
Still.. I'm using a cubic one, but to me it doesn't make sense to ban pillowed 7x7s, because they have been allowed for so a long time.. in my opinion that wouldn't change anything.. except for less 7x7 solvers in competition, because not everybody who has a v7 wants to buy a shengshou..

Yeah, this is a good point. All records prior to the new 7x7s were with the V-cube. The original standard was the V-cube. With 3x3s, however, the stickerless cube came after the stickered cube and so all records were set with stickered cubes.

Makes no sense to ban them on the grounds that the newer, square, cube is potentially disadvantaged.

 

[Akash Rupela]

I dont think it should be banned . But in case it is, I would like someone to trade a shengshou for my vcube

 

[Carrot]

Just ban the pillowed... seriously.

 

[StephenC]

All of this in in the context of the ban of stickerless cubes for use in BLD. The world record for 3x3x3 BLD, and the record for 3x3x3 MBLD were set using stickerless cubes. They have been banned because of a supposed advantage. This is why it is unfair to argue that we should be able to use pillowed 7x7x7's, purely because they were legal in the past. All of the previous record holders had an advantage.

Not all of the MBLD solvers want to disassemble their cubes, reassemble them so that they need to be stickered, and then sticker them all of which would take a considerable amount of time, and would cost more than a SS for many top MBLDers. (like 3 actually, but you get the point). What if they don't want to?

What I really want is that either stickerless cubes are unbanned, or that pillowed 7x7x7's are banned. Think about the reasons that you are giving for not banning pillowed 7x7x7's, and then think about whether or not that argument applies to stickerless cubes in BLD.

 

[Isaac Paurus]

if we do, then verdes will sue ShengShou for the patent of the 7x7 and we will have nomore 7x7 event.

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

What I really want is that either stickerless cubes are unbanned, or that pillowed 7x7x7's are banned. Think about the reasons that you are giving for not banning pillowed 7x7x7's, and then think about whether or not that argument applies to stickerless cubes in BLD.

This pretty much sums up the problem with your argument.
These are 2 separate events. Stickerless cubes were Never technically legal to begin with, whereas the Pillowed 7x7 has been legal since 7x7 was introduced. Also, just because one thing changes, doesn't mean that all related points should be changed as well.

 

[Felix1996]

If the WCA bans pillowed 7x7s, they would loose very much 7x7 competitors.. they have to keep that in mind.. and anyway.. that interested nobody for years, so, why now? only because one company brought a cubic one? there are way more companies, that made pillowed ones (Verdes, YJ, LanLan...) and they stand against one single company.

(sorry for bad english :/ but i hope you know what i try to say)

 

[rubixwiz031]

the event itself should be removed

This.

Also I think Lin would be very angry if you banned V-7's. He sure does like his V-cube

 

[StephenC]

http://worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=924

Stickerless cubes were legal (for BLD), although you could interpret the regulations to say they were not, and now they are not allowed to be used. Simelarly, pillowed 7x7x7's are legal, but you can interpret the regulations in such a way that they were illegal from the start. There may have been no other 7x7x7's, but if it is a requirement for all cubes to be cubic in other events, then 7x7x7's should have to be cubic to. The basic concept of the cube involves it being cubic. You can't seriously argue that the basic concept of all cubes below the order of 6 invloves those cubes being cubic, but that the basic concept of a puzzle suddenly changes because it has reached order 7. The whole reason the they banned stickerless cubes for BLD was for consistency. You could argue that 3x3 2H, and 3BLD are different events, and that you should not extend the rules from one to the other. You can't argue that events should all have different enforcements of the same regulations. And anyway, say 8x8x8 becomes an event. The first widely available 8x8x8 was cubic, by your argument, that then should have to be cubic, in which case the exception is only being made for 7x7x7. If V-cubes releases a pillowed 8x8x8 and we have already made 8x8x8 into an event, should we let that cube be used?

And Felix, the world record holder in MBLD quit in part because of the banning of stickerless cubes. They did not keep that in mind (or they did and decided that it was not important enough). Yes, one company has brought out a cubic one, and it complies better with the regulations than all of the other 7x7's that are available.

Also I think Lin would be very angry if you banned V-7's. He sure does like his V-cube

Repeat: the world record holder in MBLD quit in part because of the stickerless cubes ban. Is Lin more important than Marcin was? I don't think that we should be deciding what puzzles are legal based upon the preferences of the current world record holder.

 

[cubernya]

I would like to say that nobody should use history to back up their opinion. Anybody that got a POP used to get an extra solve, that rule got removed, as others have been and will be. The question is do you or do you not think pillowed 7x7s should be banned. It has nothing to do with history at all.

Personally, I am absolutely for it being banned.

And Felix, the world record holder in MBLD quit in part because of the banning of stickerless cubes.

He came back

 

[~Adam~]

Yes, it should be banned. It shouldn't have been made legal in the 1st place IMO.

 

[StephenC]

I would like to say that nobody should use history to back up their opinion. Anybody that got a POP used to get an extra solve, that rule got removed, as others have been and will be. The question is do you or do you not think pillowed 7x7s should be banned. It has nothing to do with history at all.

Personally, I am absolutely for it being banned.


He came back

I checked about him coming back. You are right. This is new news to me. I will need to go about correcting my posts when I am at my computer again.

I agree with you about history, but we do need some basis in which we are to change the rules, and the previous years set have always been fit for the purpose. I actually don't want pillowed 7x7x7's banned, but given that stickerless cubes are no longer allowed, it seems like the next logical step to me. Would you prefer that pillowed cubes be allowed in all events or none? And what do you think about stickerless cubes? For me, it's all or none.