[Official] 0.86 Magic Single

[kinch2002]

Yes, but if Ravi says the solve is okay is that going to be the final word or is the board going to still have to talk about it?

If anyone is bothered enough, they can report the 'incident' to the WCA, and they can take action as they see fit. I'm certainly not bothered enough. At least this video has spawned potentially useful discussion about what 'hands flat' means.

 

[DrKorbin]

Oh yes, next time people will think twice before publishing their official magic attempts on speedsolving

 

[Erik]

Seems like another part of the regulation that can be interpreted in different ways after reading Bob's reply.
I'm really interested in what the WRC will all change and hope things like this and 4d will be cleared up so all judges and even more important all delegates interpret the rules the same way.

 

[rubiksarlen]

A lot of these problems happen often during Magic/Master Magic solving. If it really is the +2 then drumgod (lol what's his name again ? :fp) will probably regret posting here

 

[lras]

This thing have been a problem with the Magic solves since ever. I think everbody who is good at Magic usually stops the timer like this. When I met this problem firstly I was told that "stopping the timer at a Magic solve like this can be accepted". However it would be better if the regulation was more clear about this.

 

[Bob]

This thing have been a problem with the Magic solves since ever. I think everbody who is good at Magic usually stops the timer like this. When I met this problem firstly I was told that "stopping the timer at a Magic solve like this can be accepted". However it would be better if the regulation was more clear about this.

Who told you that? It has certainly never been acceptable in the United States. In 2005 when I started competing and judging Magic, it was always hands flat to the table/timer. Hovering fingers have always been +2 here.

 

[keyan]

It is extremely difficult to judge magic

Just putting this down so it'll be in the court record: magic is a *****. For all those people that say "magic is a quick and easy event, what's to complain about", you really have no idea. We usually have just two or three people that judge. Need to be both experienced, because it's the hardest event to judge, and trusted, because the typical format of 'find a friend and judge each other' is just way too open to cheating.
Magic really is much more trouble than most people recognize.

 

[Ickenicke]

Wouldn't it be easier if wrist stops were allowed?

 

[lras]

Who told you that?.

I don't know exactly, but this is also what I experienced at my competitions. I haven't seen that a Magic solve got +2 or DNF just because the timer wasn't stopped properly.

 

[DrKorbin]

Wouldn't it be easier if wrist stops were allowed?

No, because it will be hard to tell if a competitor stops timer holding a puzzle in hands or not.

 

[Bob]

I don't know exactly, but this is also what I experienced at my competitions. I haven't seen that a Magic solve got +2 or DNF just because the timer wasn't stopped properly.

This is a problem. It indicates there may be a lack of integrity in the results at the competitions you've been to.

 

[lras]

I don't say that such a case never happens, but I have never met one. And I could be wrong. I mostly paid attention to my solves and where I judged.

 

[Bob]

Oh yes, next time people will think twice before publishing their official magic attempts on speedsolving

There is some truth to this. I tend to pay extra attention to these things when I see a solve is being recorded. I don't want to be on camera making a mistake.

 

[cityzach]

Doesn't the WCA not accept video evidence though?

11f) The main judge and WCA delegate must not support their decisions with video or photograph analysis.

 

[BlueDevil]

Doesn't the WCA not accept video evidence though?

11f) The main judge and WCA delegate must not support their decisions with video or photograph analysis.

Does not mention the WCA board. Basically, an on-site decision can't be made with such evidence. But in necessary cases, the WCA board may use evidence to review a controversial solve(s). Though I don't think this is exactly necessary of such a review.

 

[Bob]

Does not mention the WCA board. Basically, an on-site decision can't be made with such evidence. But in necessary cases, the WCA board may use evidence to review a controversial solve(s). Though I don't think this is exactly necessary of such a review.

Why not?

 

[Thompson]

A6c) The timer must be stopped using both hands, with both hands flat and palms down. Penalty: 2 seconds.
So no, wrists aren't allowed. It's difficult to tell whether it's the bottom of his hands though.

Why I dont like magic

 

[BlueDevil]

Why not?

All I'm saying is I wouldn't report it to the WCA. I'm sure a portion of the top magic times have been stopped improperly, and I don't like the idea of taking his single away from him just because he was proud and wanted to share his achievement with the community.

However, using his solve as a case for cracking down on the rules is totally OK, and I think that the board should discuss how to deal with improper stopping of the timer, especially when the infraction may last for so little time that the judge cannot tell without video/picture evidence. I don't know what conclusions they would come to, but I think it would be a good conversation to have.

 

[Bob]

All I'm saying is I wouldn't report it to the WCA. I'm sure a portion of the top magic times have been stopped improperly, and I don't like the idea of taking his single away from him just because he was proud and wanted to share his achievement with the community.

However, using his solve as a case for cracking down on the rules is totally OK, and I think that the board should discuss how to deal with improper stopping of the timer, especially when the infraction may last for so little time that the judge cannot tell without video/picture evidence. I don't know what conclusions they would come to, but I think it would be a good conversation to have.

What if this was WR? Would that change your opinion?

 

[Kirjava]

I don't like the idea of taking his single away from him just because he was proud and wanted to share his achievement with the community.

Do you truly think that that is the justification people are using in this thread?