Sexuality

[maggot]

poorly paraphrasing my comments and quoting satire is a personal stab at me, so my defense.

people, such as yourself, who are unwilling to have civil conversations about issues and play victim to everything are the reason why the community is oppressed. everything that is said about sexuality is a personal attack, complaining that everyone hates you. . sure, with that kind of attitude (which sucks, might i add) you're sure to get somewhere; in company of others who feel like the whole world is against them. grow up. you conveniently edited out a part of my post which stated that there are much bigger issues to humanity than the oppression of homosexuality (limited resources, global warming, world hunger, unclean water in 3rd world countries, 3rd world countries becoming nuclear superpowers). part of the reason why oppression of homosexuality is so prevelent is that a large amount of LGBT activists act like america owes them something. its like a black person feeling like they need restitution for being oppressed before the lifting of segregation. stuff like this takes time. the more you agitate the situation, the longer the bitterness is going to linger. if you come with a positive attitude you'd be surprised at how much you can get accomplished. im also disappointed that your personal attack on myself was not deleted by a mod. yes, its fun to discuss with an open mind. i guess we should be weary of discussing sexuality on a forum where the average age is 12. at least you should try to act a little more grown up, and im not just talking about diction.

 

[Tortin]

poorly paraphrasing my comments and quoting satire is a personal stab at me, so my defense.

people, such as yourself, who are unwilling to have civil conversations about issues and play victim to everything are the reason why the community is oppressed. everything that is said about sexuality is a personal attack, complaining that everyone hates you. . sure, with that kind of attitude (which sucks, might i add) you're sure to get somewhere; in company of others who feel like the whole world is against them. grow up. you conveniently edited out a part of my post which stated that there are much bigger issues to humanity than the oppression of homosexuality (limited resources, global warming, world hunger, unclean water in 3rd world countries, 3rd world countries becoming nuclear superpowers). part of the reason why oppression of homosexuality is so prevelent is that a large amount of LGBT activists act like america owes them something. its like a black person feeling like they need restitution for being oppressed before the lifting of segregation. stuff like this takes time. the more you agitate the situation, the longer the bitterness is going to linger. if you come with a positive attitude you'd be surprised at how much you can get accomplished. im also disappointed that your personal attack on myself was not deleted by a mod. yes, its fun to discuss with an open mind. i guess we should be weary of discussing sexuality on a forum where the average age is 12. at least you should try to act a little more grown up, and im not just talking about diction.

So because there are worse problems in the world we should just give up on this issues and others? That's horrible reasoning.

If you're in high school they're pretty much all that way. In my school it's more of a racial division. There are a lot of black students who attend my school illegally. Our football team won back to back states because we have a ton of illegal athletes and they believe that because they can catch a ball they can lower everyone else's learning environment.

It's unfortunate but many people at young ages are very ignorant of the world around them and are totally insensitive to other people's beliefs.

What does being black have to do with anything?

 

[maggot]

So because there are worse problems in the world we should just give up on this issues and others? That's horrible reasoning.

that is not what i am conveying if you read my previous post. i did not say that we should give up on any issue in the world. to reiterate, there are a lot of problems in this world that are unsolved. and it sucks. oppression of homosexuality sucks. when you think with a negative mentality, it sucks that you cannot be who you want to be and be accepted. what i wanted to convey is the optimistic point of view while supressing the pessimist. be grateful that you are not hungry and have food to eat. be grateful you can choose your own god. be grateful you have many freedoms living in america. im not saying to ignore the problem, but if you strongly feel like you are shackled down, beaten up and broken down for who you are, give up everything you take for granted and go somewhere where you can live a happy life. but be prepared that a lot of the world is not perfect. this is what i was trying to convey.
also, you can choose to be who you want to be in america and live your life the way you want to live. being LGBT doesnt put you in the same category as a criminal. if you are who you are and treat people with respect, you will get respect in turn. while it is sad that some people feel a certain way about homosexuality, the environment i was raised in was positive and is proof of that statement. while it is true that some things heterosexual people take for granted are much desired by the LGBT community, it is what it is. you can be like somewhatanon and make yourself and others miserable for the rest of your life or you can come to reality and live your life with happiness. what really matters in life?

 

[Cool Frog]

people, such as yourself, who are unwilling to have civil conversations about issues and play victim to everything are the reason why the community is oppressed.

Yes

everything that is said about sexuality is a personal attack, complaining that everyone hates you. . sure, with that kind of attitude (which sucks, might i add)

It is a personal attack? It is just as discriminating as hating someone with a different skin color or religion.

you're sure to get somewhere; in company of others who feel like the whole world is against them.

Sarcasm... People get together with other people who are like them to feel supported because they have a commonness between each other. They also all get discriminated against for it, I do see your point.

part of the reason why oppression of homosexuality is so prevelent is that a large amount of LGBT activists act like america owes them something. its like a black person feeling like they need restitution for being oppressed before the lifting of segregation.

What about their constitutional right to freedom of the pursuit of happiness? The difference between black discrimination and homosexual discrimination is it seems that discrimination of a persons skin color is frowned upon more than discrimination of a homosexual.
I think part of this has to do with homosexuals are a minority.

stuff like this takes time. the more you agitate the situation, the longer the bitterness is going to linger.

I disagree, I don't think insults and put-downs should be used to "Speed up the process". I think that their opinions should be heard.

if you come with a positive attitude you'd be surprised at how much you can get accomplished.

yes, its fun to discuss with an open mind.

For sure, I have been more open minded to this topic for sure. From what I have observed many people don't mind homosexuality or bisexuality. But, if some is LGBT they think of them differently.

 

[qqwref]

So, maggot, just to confirm, basically you're saying:
- other people's lives suck more than yours, so
- you should be grateful for what you have, which means
- not complaining about what you don't, because
- it isn't necessary to be accepted for who you are to be happy.

 

[freshcuber]

So because there are worse problems in the world we should just give up on this issues and others? That's horrible reasoning.



What does being black have to do with anything?

Like I said my school has a racial division. Stating where the race division is was relevant to the rest of my post. That's where being black has something to do with it.

 

[cuberkid10]

My opinion on gay marriage: LEGALIZE THAT.

People say that gay marrage hurts families. How so? Children should be exposed to this. Im not saying to tell them all the details of sex, but to just introduce the idea that 2 guys or 2 girls have the freedom to love and marry. People say that if this was legalized, it would be required to be brought into schools. I think with it being brought into schools, it would get rid of a bit of ignorance. I find that many people are ignorant, becuase they dont know much. Educating people on this is the first step to acceptance.

The religious aspect is the more difficult topic to tackle. People say that it goes against the Bible and becuase it does, it shouldn't be legalized. Doesnt it also say in the bible that God loves everyone? Why does that exclude gay people. Man and woman can be married with no problem. But man and man (or woman and woman) cannot?

 

[Chapuunka]

[Does not plan to hijack thread or go on a "religious bawwww-fest".]

The religious aspect is the more difficult topic to tackle. People say that it goes against the Bible and becuase it does, it shouldn't be legalized. Doesnt it also say in the bible that God loves everyone? Why does that exclude gay people. Man and woman can be married with no problem. But man and man (or woman and woman) cannot?

Yes, God loves everyone. Telling people they shouldn't practice homosexuality doesn't mean He doesn't love them. (Parents tell their kids they shouldn't do things all the time, but they obviously still love them.)

 

[maggot]

So, maggot, just to confirm, basically you're saying:
- other people's lives suck more than yours, so
- you should be grateful for what you have, which means
- not complaining about what you don't, because
- it isn't necessary to be accepted for who you are to be happy.

other than the first statement, yes. we can all pretty much assume that some part of our life is not perfect. i am the same, i just dont wish to discuss it as it is not appropriate to this topic.

yes, What is your opinion on no "gay marriage"

my opinion is exactly what i said. it is what it is. this is going to sound bad, but i'll explain. i support gay marriage. in every sense. i believe that the same benefits that a hetero, married couple would recieve

Spoiler

joint parenting;
joint adoption;
joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents);
status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent;
joint insurance policies for home, auto and health;
dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support;
immigration and residency for partners from other countries;
inheritance automatically in the absence of a will;
joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment;
inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate);
benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare;
spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home;
veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns;
joint filing of customs claims when traveling;
wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children;
bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child;
decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her;
crime victims' recovery benefits;
loss of consortium tort benefits;
domestic violence protection orders;
judicial protections and evidentiary immunity;
and more....

these things. i think that marriage in the sense of proclaiming your joining before god is the part that people cant handle. me personally, i think that seperating religion from state is the way to go on this issue. but personally, i think i could care less wether its before god or not. i am religious, however, i feel like it is something that can be embraced, eventually. i think that for every person who wants to proclaim their joining before god can do so in a church, gay or straight. but for the time being, the same rights can be given by the state, just not before god. theres many a time which me and my wife dont actually feel like we're married. its just a piece of paper and we wear some rings. i dont know why its such a big deal to give that same rights to everyone who wishes it.

 

[hawkmp4]

[Does not plan to hijack thread or go on religious "bawwww-fest".]



Yes, God loves everyone. Telling people they shouldn't practice homosexuality doesn't mean He doesn't love them. (Parents tell their kids they shouldn't do things all the time, but they obviously still love them.)

Exactly. I'm all for GLBT rights, but this is the wrong way to go about arguing for them. In a secular society, some moral or practical reason outside the framework of the Bible (or any other religious book) has to be given to keep gay marriage banned. "The Bible says so" isn't valid justification for a law, if it's the only justification. Obviously, the US isn't purely secular, and that's of course why it's still banned...

 

[maggot]

Exactly. I'm all for GLBT rights, but this is the wrong way to go about arguing for them. In a secular society, some moral or practical reason outside the framework of the Bible (or any other religious book) has to be given to keep gay marriage banned. "The Bible says so" isn't valid justification for a law, if it's the only justification. Obviously, the US isn't purely secular, and that's of course why it's still banned...

thank you for this. my english doesnt allow me to convey this very clearly. it is what it is. this is what i mean. the US's core values are christian, therefore the oppression follows suit with those core values. this is why you could leave to another country if it inhibits your ability to live a happy life.

 

[hawkmp4]

this is why you could leave to another country if it inhibits your ability to live a happy life.

So, by this, you're saying that instead of the civil rights movement of the 1960's, African-Americans should have just moved back to Africa?

 

[maggot]

for the ones who absolutely could NOT live their lives happily, yes. im japanese, so if i was living in the US around the time of WW2 and oppression inhibited my ability to live a happy life, yes... i would leave. would you not?


edit: are you guys even trying to make sense of what im trying to say or are you arguing for the sake of argument?

 

[hawkmp4]

for the ones who absolutely could NOT live their lives happily, yes. im japanese, so if i was living in the US around the time of WW2 and oppression inhibited my ability to live a happy life, yes... i would leave. would you not?


edit: are you guys even trying to make sense of what im trying to say or are you arguing for the sake of argument?

Yeah, we're trying to make sense of it. You're just saying incredibly intolerant things. Your argument boils down to, "If you don't like it, GTFO." Which allows for exactly zero social progress. I'm not okay with that...

 

[JonWhite]

what if someone financially has no way to GTFO like you're suggesting?

 

[Cool Frog]

for the ones who absolutely could NOT live their lives happily, yes. im japanese, so if i was living in the US around the time of WW2 and oppression inhibited my ability to live a happy life, yes... i would leave. would you not?

edit: are you guys even trying to make sense of what im trying to say or are you arguing for the sake of argument?

If you didn't get shoved into our concentration campsv(but this is a different story)
I Do like all of your comments, I feel as if they are contributing greatly in this discussion.

what if someone financially has no way to GTFO like you're suggesting?

From what my global studies teacher said you can get a ride on an ocean cargo ship for ~60 bucks and you can travel nearly across the world (in solitude for 2-6 months)

 

[hawkmp4]

And how would you feed yourself for those 2-6 months with no income?
Keep in mind, $60 is a lot to some people.

 

[maggot]

haha. i realize that it is ambitious of me to make a comment such as GTFO, which is true. but what you are misunderstanding is that i am not saying that this is the right choice for everyone. for the people in which moving to another country is within their means financially, amongst other things, why not move if you really truly are absolutely not able to live a happy life? if you cannot live happily without being legally married, cannot live with the amount of oppression, in whatever form, leave! there are PLENTY of people who live in america, GAY, and live a happy life. take your negative attitude elsewhere. if you are willing to talk in a civil manner and express your opinion on matters, present solutions in a positive manner.... you have to remember that it is a very sensitive subject and yes, they are a minority. being a minority doesnt mean you have to make your voice louder to be heard.

 

[Chapuunka]

But yet, there is no place on earth where everyone can be 100% happy all the time, even if you had the financial ability to get wherever you wanted to be--there's always going to be issues.

 

[Innocence]

@Maggot: Moar whitespace pl0x. I would probably enjoy reading your posts if I was able to without my brain hurting.

Also, I have NO idea where this thread is going anymore, so I don't really have anything that's really constructive to contribute. Sorry. :/