Europe 2008

[bamilan]

(Sorry for not reading all of the posts before)

I do not agree with the decision that non-europeans will come and compete at the EC08. They also can make(?) a continental championship, called American championship (or so).
Why do you want to come here and destroy our championship with your best speedcubers with winning in few events and take away our prize money?
That is too bad... A European championship is only for cubers from Europe (and from few other countries).

If this championship is called European Open, why would I have to go there? That is just like a normal open competition (like Polish Open). If it is a European Championship, I feel that my place is there, I have to go there (and win all events ). All (most) of the european cubers will be there. But an Open championship means really different for me and maybe for a lot of cubers.

Please change your decision(s).


Milan

 

[Crazycubemom]

Hey ho everyone ,
1,This case seems like Asian Food Festival, but Mario and Luigi would like to come with their Spaggeti,Maccaroni,Lasagna etc,of course i'm as Asian won't let it happen in this Asian Food festival.

2,I have RESPECT to my BEST friend who doesn't invite me to her or his party because of he or she has party only with her or his family,so i have respest to myself .

 

[rxdeath]

(Sorry for not reading all of the posts before)

I do not agree with the decision that non-europeans will come and compete at the EC08. They also can make(?) a continental championship, called American championship (or so).
Why do you want to come here and destroy our championship with your best speedcubers with winning in few events and take away our prize money?
That is too bad... A European championship is only for cubers from Europe (and from few other countries).

If this championship is called European Open, why would I have to go there? That is just like a normal open competition (like Polish Open). If it is a European Championship, I feel that my place is there, I have to go there (and win all events ). All (most) of the european cubers will be there. But an Open championship means really different for me and maybe for a lot of cubers.

Please change your decision(s).


Milan

so basically u don't like it because someone might win a prize or do better than you. this is highly selfish, can you say why its a bad idea in terms of fairness to all cubers in the world? if we do have a NAR champoinship, you can be assured it will be open to all, because its the right thing to do

 

[shelley]

Why do you want to come here and destroy our championship with your best speedcubers with winning in few events and take away our prize money?

I feel like a parrot having to repeat this over and over. Nobody's trying to "destroy" your championships. The best speedcubers in the world are not planning an invasion of the European Championships to make off with all the prize money. At most, this will probably only affect a few people (if any!), mostly non-European citizens living or traveling in Europe who want a chance to compete.

1,This case seems like Asian Food Festival, but Mario and Luigi would like to come with their Spaggeti,Maccaroni,Lasagna etc,of course i'm as Asian won't let it happen in this Asian Food festival.

The purpose of an Asian food festival is to showcase unique aspects of Asian food and Asian culture. Mario and Luigi would feel very silly and out of place if they wanted their Italian cuisine to be included.

This isn't the case with the European Rubik's Cube Championships. There is nothing distinct about European cubing compared to American cubing or Asian cubing. We are all cubers, and we all appreciate opportunities to compete. Country citizenship is an arbitrary classification, and it's silly to forbid certain people from competing based on that.

 

[masterofthebass]

Hey ho everyone ,
1,This case seems like Asian Food Festival, but Mario and Luigi would like to come with their Spaggeti,Maccaroni,Lasagna etc,of course i'm as Asian won't let it happen in this Asian Food festival.

2,I have RESPECT to my BEST friend who doesn't invite me to her or his party because of he or she has party only with her or his family,so i have respest to myself .

This isn't an Asian food festival, where people are brining in other types of foods. This is a cubing competition where people who happen to be in the are would want to compete in the same events are Europeans.


But this isn't a family only party. This is a sanctioned event by a world organization. If the ECA (european cube association) decided to hold a Europe only competition, then there's nothing I would be allowed to say. This pertains to a worldwide organization, not just the "family" of Europe.

 

[Tyson]

Nobody wants European money! Milan, foreigners won't take your prizes or your money. It could be set up that way.

It's not my fault if the organizer doesn't do this. But foreigners aren't going for your money. In fact, simply say that the prizes are reserved for Europeans. But again, if this is not the case, I am not responsible for the decisions of the organizers.

 

[rxdeath]

Nobody wants European money! Milan, foreigners won't take your prizes or your money. It could be set up that way.

It's not my fault if the organizer doesn't do this. But foreigners aren't going for your money. In fact, simply say that the prizes are reserved for Europeans. But again, if this is not the case, I am not responsible for the decisions of the organizers.

i personally think the money is a null point, but that anyone that goes should be able to win any prizes available, minus the title of 'european champion' no one is in it for the money, but it should be available to all.

ps-where did money come from?

 

[AvGalen]

All this talk about fairness and competitions that must be open because it is the WCA and not the ECA is silly. According to the WCA-regulations:

8b)An open competition is open to anyone.
8c)A closed competition may be open to:

• persons with a specific nationality
• citizens of a specific continent
• members of a specific club

I like both Open and Closed competitions and have competed in both. I don't care about prize money and rankings and would like to meet everyone again and again and again.

My reason for discussing this is that I would like to know why this competition was changed from Closed to Open.

 

[Crazycubemom]

1,This case seems like Asian Food Festival, but Mario and Luigi would like to come with their Spaggeti,Maccaroni,Lasagna etc,of course I'm as Asian won't let it happen in this Asian Food festival

The purpose of an Asian food festival is to showcase unique aspects of Asian food and Asian culture. Mario and Luigi would feel very silly and out of place if they wanted their Italian cuisine to be included.

This isn't the case with the European Rubik's Cube Championships. There is nothing distinct about European cubing compared to American cubing or Asian cubing. We are all cubers, and we all appreciate opportunities to compete. Country citizenship is an arbitrary classification, and it's silly to forbid certain people from competing based on that.

I think before Mario and Luigi come they must know this is about Asian Food Festival .Of course silly for them .This is the same for EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIP 2008, they got right to make their own competition same as you and me and an other's non-European .Let them go with their competition.

@ Masterofthebass ,

I know what European Championships ,from European for European .
That's why as a outsider i just want to see European cubers compete in this European Championships .

 

[rxdeath]

All this talk about fairness and competitions that must be open because it is the WCA and not the ECA is silly. According to the WCA-regulations:

8b)An open competition is open to anyone.
8c)A closed competition may be open to:

• persons with a specific nationality
• citizens of a specific continent
• members of a specific club

I like both Open and Closed competitions and have competed in both. I don't care about prize money and rankings and would like to meet everyone again and again and again.

My reason for discussing this is that I would like to know why this competition was changed from Closed to Open.

my answer: because it's fair is the best reason of all. hopefully those archaic rules will be removed from next years wca draft, i know i will fight for it.

 

[Rama]

Erik: Twents Open... change it to EC!
I'll help organising it, if you want.

rxdeath: My mom (who owns an Indonesian passport) supports Edouard, Erik and the others who are against this 'Open', she wants to help judging, do you hear her complain that she couldn't compete at some closed competitions, like I already said, I won't whine because I can't compete at the 'Turkish Championships', even better I just ask if I could help judging and still I can have a fun time.

Fair or unfair, I do not care, I want my European Championship.
Give me the EC and give me the EO seperated!

Am I being selfish? Yes sir!

See you at the next years WCA draft then, I love the atmosphere of closed and open competition fair or not fair.

 

[Erik]

Erik: Twents Open... change it to EC!
I'll help organising it, if you want.

Yupyup that's very possible I think, only have to get a bigger location then...

New update on the European (open) 2008:
Note about European / non European competitors (to be decided when prizes are known):

Non European competitors can compete in all events like the European competitors.
Only European competitors can win the European Champion title and European Championship silver and bronze medals.
Only European competitors can win prizes for the main events.
In side events all competitors (European or non European) can win prizes.

It solved some of the problems, though not most and certainly not the main ones.

 

[masterofthebass]

Rama, you're mom is in a completely different situation. First off, she doesn't live outside of Europe, and has already met and experienced the European ways.

Crazycubemom, your lack of knowledge in English grammar isn't helping with your argument, but... I think I can still understand what you are saying. I don't want to go to European championships to sit there and watch others. That's not what competitions are about. Competing is part of the experience of going to a competition. I'm not there to watch cubers, but to compete. You're feelings on what you want to do at a competition has no barring on who should be allowed to compete.

 

[rxdeath]

well i'm sorry and saddened some are so selfish they can't do what's best for the community. at least now we've established its not fair to have closed competitions to everyone, so hopefully this will be enough that people with selfless desires for the cubing community will speak out, and we will get all open competitions all the time. and if you're too weak willed to fight for fairness in turkey or wherever, that's your problem not mine. i'm a competitive cuber, and that's what i'm interested in, all fairness, all tournament, all the time.

do what's best for everyone, not just for your personal childish desires, we will all have more fun.

if you manage to squeek off a closed competition and get it counted, hey great for you, but i will campaign to abolish them all asap. i also think its funny to go so far out of your way for the few (if any) non europeans that show up. also what are the guidelines for saying your competition is the championship of anything? does this get approved by the wca board, or can anyone call any tournament anything they want? this is european championships already (regardless of how you feel) and if you guys don't like i think its a big case of too bad so sad.

 

[shelley]

My mom (who owns an Indonesian passport) supports Edouard, Erik and the others who are against this 'Open', she wants to help judging, do you hear her complain that she couldn't compete at some closed competitions, like I already said, I won't whine because I can't compete at the 'Turkish Championships', even better I just ask if I could help judging and still I can have a fun time.

I was actually in Europe when Euro 2006 took place. I would have liked a chance to compete. I know other people might feel the same way had they been in my position.

Speaking of Euro 2006, it was open only to citizens of European nations and Israel. Why Israel? Israel is part of Asia, not Europe. Why include Israel and not Japan, or Canada, or the US? It goes to show that the citizenship thing is completely arbitrary and shouldn't be used as a basis of who should and shouldn't be allowed to compete.

Fair or unfair, I do not care, I want my European Championship.
Give me the EC and give me the EO seperated!

Nobody's taking it away from you. Allowing a few extra people to compete isn't going to destroy your championship. Especially if they don't even win. Besides, judging from the preregistration list so far, it doesn't look like you have anything to worry about anyway.

Am I being selfish? Yes sir!

That's a strange thing to be proud about.

 

[Subaruiz]

If this competition his open to non-europeans competitors , it can not been european championship.
Why ? Read the definition of " championship " , it can not been named european championship

 

[shelley]

The definition of "championship" in this context is simply a contest or competition from which a winner or champion is selected. I don't see how that is a problem. It's not like a European champion suddenly can't be crowned just because one of the competitors in the competition happens to own an American passport.

The US Championships have been open to citizens of other countries, and nobody's had any problem with it.

Try again.

 

[Worms]

Speaking of Euro 2006, it was open only to citizens of European nations and Israel. Why Israel? Israel is part of Asia, not Europe. Why include Israel and not Japan, or Canada, or the US?

In european competition, Israel is include in european championship, football basketball, etc etc

 

[rubikaz]

I have checked now the competitors list:

http://www.speedcubing.com/events/euro2008/competitors.html

In two days:

Pyraminx: 30 competitors (max allowed 50)
4x4 blindfold: 13 competitors (max allowed 12)
5x5 blindfold: 7 competitors (max allowed 12)

This 3 events are limited. There is not a previous classification. So or the WCA accepts you or you cant compete. There are now 9 persons in the waiting list for this event... There are 9 non-European persons that have solved 4x4 blind in less of an our. If they come to this competition they can compete in this event and then no more European competitors will compete in 4x4 blindfold (guys in the waiting list will not compete), only 4 or 5 European guys in this competition.

What do you think about it?

 

[rxdeath]

I have checked now the competitors list:

http://www.speedcubing.com/events/euro2008/competitors.html

In two days:

Pyraminx: 30 competitors (max allowed 50)
4x4 blindfold: 13 competitors (max allowed 12)
5x5 blindfold: 7 competitors (max allowed 12)

This 3 events are limited. There is not a previous classification. So or the WCA accepts you or you cant compete. There are now 9 persons in the waiting list for this event... There are 9 non-European persons that have solved 4x4 blind in less of an our. If they come to this competition they can compete in this event and then no more European competitors will compete in 4x4 blindfold (guys in the waiting list will not compete), only 4 or 5 European guys in this competition.

What do you think about it?

have time trials/prelims to decide who goes, simple as that