Europe 2008

[AvGalen]

I am missing some background information to really understand what is going on.
Has there been a thread that explains why the EC was moved from Poland to Spain?
And has there been a thread that explains more about the decision to switch from a EC to a EO?

I would really like to meet as many cubers as possible, not just at a EO, but also at many other tournaments.
I would also like to have the experience and feel of a EC.
I think Lars is right and that we will have an EC with just a couple (or maybe non at all) of non-Europeans present.

 

[nicoJ]

i agree with rubikaz

if one year there's a WChampionship, and the next is Continental Championship, why do we have to turn up this EC in a WC (that IS for ODD years), and now we are in a year for EC
if you want to do a E Open, then we can just call it OPEN
like French Open, German Open... etc, and also make it longer and bigger

but for this... i think it HAS TO BE just for European people, and i'm sorry for the American People i wanted to know and i wont

 

[rxdeath]

PCA vs. FIDE. We should learn from history that a split like that would likely be the end of organized cubing.

Yes we don't want that, but splits only occur when people are dissatisfied with the way things are atm, plus I didn't mention anything about or saw anything about a new organisation.. (btw, in Darts the split is quite ok, not that I want a split, just want to show another side of the story...)

Could you instead also give your opinion about my option number 3?
And to all against #3 please come with a better solution! So far as I've seen I'm the only one who actually tried to find a solution in this mess instead of trying the other partie convince my point is right!

the best solution has been reached. seriously HOW IS IT NOT FAIR. that's really the only question i'm interested in hearing an response to, everything else is pointless.

avgalen: its still euro championships, but now you get to hang out with international cubers too! a separate competition would be a joke, and quite a bit of effort to organize something unfair. the EC won't loose any appeal or experience, unless you let it

 

[shelley]

Erik, you want a better solution? How about just calming down and letting the competition proceed as planned? Chances are only a few non-Europeans will show up anyway. What's the problem you're getting so worked up over?

 

[shelley]

i agree with rubikaz

if one year there's a WChampionship, and the next is Continental Championship, why do we have to turn up this EC in a WC (that IS for ODD years), and now we are in a year for EC
if you want to do a E Open, then we can just call it OPEN
like French Open, German Open... etc, and also make it longer and bigger

but for this... i think it HAS TO BE just for European people, and i'm sorry for the American People i wanted to know and i wont

Making the European Championships open does not mean turning it into the World Championships. Get that into your head. If some non-European citizens happen to be in the area, what's wrong with letting them compete?

 

[Inusagi]

I don't understand number 1, Erik. You said European people will be angry, but why should European people be angry at all? If you see an Asian guy there, then you could choose to not talk to him. The only difference is the haircolour and skin colour. You could just get a bad place in this competition, that is all. Is there anything else you don't like? If there's not, then it should be an open. God created us all like people, we're all the same.

By the way, I am European.

 

[Erik]

If proceed is the best solution then what's wrong in my logic analysing in the 3 options?
You think to have a lot of europeans sad is the best option? Why force us to try something new instead of give us the chance to experience both option Open and option Closed?

Plus, what I'm getting worked up for, besides the fact that we are forced to change, is also for that facts Arnaud questioned, there has been little to no clarification about the changes, not to mention to check if we all agree on it at all.

And Inusagi: haven't you read other Europeans' opinion in this thread so far?
And Shelly: there will probably be another tournament but this time Open very soon before or after it, after all why want to compete so hard in the tournaments you can't enter? Maybe because 'the grass on the other side always seems greener'??

What you are doing is (how I see it) nothing more than just wanting the thing you want and not think about a better solution where more people will be happy. (Even though I think Europeans should be the ones who decide this since it's their competition)

 

[Tyson]

Again, this isn't because it's the European Championships. We would be having the same discussion if it was "The Adam Zamora Invitational."

 

[rxdeath]

If proceed is the best solution then what's wrong in my logic analysing in the 3 options?
You think to have a lot of europeans sad is the best option? Why force us to try something new instead of give us the chance to experience both option Open and option Closed?

Plus, what I'm getting worked up for, besides the fact that we are forced to change, is also for that facts Arnaud questioned, there has been little to no clarification about the changes, not to mention to check if we all agree on it at all.

And Inusagi: haven't you read other Europeans' opinion in this thread so far?

erik: tell me how open for all isn't fair. tell me how closed competitions aren't unfair. all this sadness boohoo drivel is pointless, seriously, its obvious closed comps are unfair, if that makes some people sad, who cares? also, who needs to agree on fairness, its obvious and irrefutable. equal conditions for everyone to compete is easy to see.

the grass is greener on both sides when we take down the fence

 

[shelley]

If proceed is the best solution then what's wrong in my logic analysing in the 3 options?
You think to have a lot of europeans sad is the best option? Why force us to try something new instead of give us the chance to experience both option Open and option Closed?

Plus, what I'm getting worked up for, besides the fact that we are forced to change, is also for that facts Arnaud questioned, there has been little to no clarification about the changes, not to mention to check if we all agree on it at all.

And Inusagi: haven't you read other Europeans' opinion in this thread so far?

Again, how many foreigners do you expect to show up at the European Championships now that it's open? Will it really be that much of a change? Is it really worth spending the time and money to organize a second closed tournament just to exclude them?

If you don't agree with the decisions made by the competition organizers, don't participate. Simple as that. You can organize your own tournament if you don't like the way things are done.

 

[Erik]

Tyson: no we wouldn't, Europe is one of the very few (if not the only) things I'd like a closed competition for since we like to have championships for that

It's totally irrelevant how many people actually will come, it's about the possibility that other people can win it, etc.

It's frustrating people still want to change ways they are and say why not let it be as it is, since as far as we know the decision was made not very long ago and can be made undone no problem.

It's still annoying to hear the same things over and over without new solutions because apparently you don't want to see that there is a problem at all...

It's time consuming to post here over and over again, but as long as there are no results at all (i.e. more info (see Arnauds message), more respect for the fact that we like it how it was even though others think not (see Mike's message), better ideas (see my message with options)) I have no other option than to keep posting.

 

[Stefan]

people against the Euro (the great one, not the bilbao Open) are only non-european people

Wrong. I'm "European" and against the closed version.

(Don't know where this thread went, I stopped reading around message 80...)

 

[rxdeath]

Tyson: no we wouldn't, Europe is one of the very few (if not the only) things I'd like a closed competition for since we like to have championships for that

It's totally irrelevant how many people actually will come, it's about the possibility that other people can win it, etc.

It's frustrating people still want to change ways they are and say why not let it be as it is, since as far as we know the decision was made not very long ago and can be made undone no problem.

It's still annoying to hear the same things over and over without new solutions because apparently you don't want to see that there is a problem at all...

It's time consuming to post here over and over again, but as long as there are no results at all (i.e. more info (see Arnauds message), more respect for the fact that we like it how it was even though others think not (see Mike's message), better ideas (see my message with options)) I have no other option than to keep posting.

erik, (or anyone) answer my point. you keep talking but no one has said why this is unfair to be open. the primary concern is fairness, not european desires or wants, and most importantly its not europes competition, all competitions belong to everyone.

and this name changing is funny, its IS the EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS and all the boohooing won't change it to a different name.

there was info, you guys just don't like it, its was changed to be FAIR to all

 

[shelley]

Give us one good reason why things should stay the way they were. Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean it's the best way.

If you were paying attention, I just gave you a new solution. If you don't like how things are done, don't compete. No one's forcing you to compete against foreigners if you don't want to.

 

[Erik]

sorry but I didn't take it serious since it'll won't help anything at all..
it'll only have effect if loads of people won't compete and will come to our own EC. Which will be bad since it'll be kinda a split which I want to avoid, though we might actually hold that other EC.
Btw, I'm kinda confused by your last post Shelley... the way it is now is that it's open? ..

 

[shelley]

Btw, I'm kinda confused by your last post Shelley... the way it is now is that it's open? ..

Sorry, I changed it. I was following your wording when you said "why not let it be as it is" when I meant to refer to how things were before, when it was closed.

 

[rxdeath]

Give us one good reason why things should stay the way they were. Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean it's the best way.

If you were paying attention, I just gave you a new solution. If you don't like how things are done, don't compete. No one's forcing you to compete against foreigners if you don't want to.[/QUOTE


erik you're dodging my point, which i think shows that this is the correct solution. define how this open tournament is unfair. or tell me how closed tournaments are fair. if you organize another closed tourney, i will fight against it for all the good it will/won't do, but i think its pathetic if people are so selfish they have to have their little private competition, compete against everyone don't be elitists.

 

[Erik]

Give us one good reason why things should stay the way they were. Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean it's the best way.

I didn't say it was the best way, it's the way we want it to be (how wrong it might be)

 

[AvGalen]

Again, this isn't because it's the European Championships. We would be having the same discussion if it was "The Adam Zamora Invitational."

I think the reason we are having this entire discussion IS because it was the European Championships and was turned in to the European Open (without explanation). If it would have been the European Open all along there wouldn't have been a discussion about this.
I cannot really explain why I like the feeling of an EC any better than I did before with the "history lesson".

I still hope someone can explain when/who/why it was decided to change the EC to an EO.

 

[rxdeath]

Give us one good reason why things should stay the way they were. Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean it's the best way.

I didn't say it was the best way, it's the way we want it to be (how wrong it might be)

well the fair way is the best regardless of silly personal desires.

avg: i did tell you why, because its FAIR for it to be open, if you can tell me why its not fair, i will campaign for closed competition