Judging Discussion Thread [before: Judges' behavior at WCA competitions]

[coinman]

Sins most people her has bean or will be asked to judge in competitions I want to say a few words about how I think a judge should behave and not. Mainly not

In many competitions I have visited the tables has bean to close together and thereby also the competitors. This will have the downside that when a judge is to put a cube down on a competitors table he will squeeze in between people already solving. I have bean bumped in to several times while solving and this is very annoying. Many times it has not bean necessary for them to squeeze in like this. Even if it's tight I always try to do everything I can not to interrupt people who are solving when I judge. You can bend over the competitor you are judging or carefully move sideways between the competitors chairs and move out as fast as possible.

A list of don'ts that I have bean a victim to my self.

Judges bumping in to me while solving.

Judges staying between the competitors during the whole solve about 20 cm from me and the other solver and not even standing still! I think it's annoying to have people standing that close, and I don't think I’m alone.

Judges that is staring at me and everything I do during the whole solve. I think it's ok to look without staring, do it from some distance and discreet.

Judges cubing while judging. Ones a judge was cubing during a 4x4 solve I made, he popped a piece that bounced under my chair and under the table. I completely lost my place in the algorithm due to this.

Maybe there should be a WCA rule about distance between the competitors sins this is the biggest problem. But on the other hand this might make it even harder for organizers to find venues.

 

[flan]

The judge should look at what your doing or you might cheat.

 

[Rpotts]

Judges that is staring at me and everything I do during the whole solve. I think it's ok to look without staring, do it from some distance and discreet.

This is the judges job, they need to stare intently in order to effectively judge someone whose turning at an absurd rate.

Judges cubing while judging. Ones a judge was cubing during a 4x4 solve I made, he popped a piece that bounced under my chair and under the table. I completely lost my place in the algorithm due to this.

If this happens to you again, talk to the tournament organizer or the delegate, because that is highly improper. However, any solver could pop at anytime (competitor/bystander) and you need to "tune out" anything and everyone else. A piece bouncing under the table is not a legitimate excuse to lose your place.

 

[Kirjava]

Judges that is staring at me and everything I do during the whole solve. I think it's ok to look without staring, do it from some distance and discreet.

lol.. what

Judges cubing while judging. Ones a judge was cubing during a 4x4 solve I made, he popped a piece that bounced under my chair and under the table. I completely lost my place in the algorithm due to this.

I don't mind if you wanna grab a cube while I'm doing 6x6x6 or something dumb that takes forever and I don't care about, but it's quite annoying when you're doing 4x4x4 and you can SEE the 3x3x3 cube being solved ABOVE where you are solving. like wtf. Anyway, whenever I had problems like this I just asked people to not do it or do it like less of a fgt and they're happy to do so.

Just tell people stuff to sort stuff like this out, no need to make silly rules.

 

[joey]

Also something that I find pretty distracting is when the judge picks up the pen or w/e when you're close to finishing...

 

[coinman]

This is the judges job, they need to stare intently in order to effectively judge someone whose turning at an absurd rate..

Yes of course you should look at the solve when judging to see that no cheating is going on but not standing close and staring, that's annoying.

If this happens to you again, talk to the tournament organizer or the delegate, because that is highly improper. However, any solver could pop at anytime (competitor/bystander) and you need to "tune out" anything and everyone else. A piece bouncing under the table is not a legitimate excuse to lose your place.

In this case it was the tournament organizer who did it I know I cud have made a protest and gotten a new solve but we were behind schedule and i didn't care. I'm usually in to my solves and will not lose my place but this was to much

The point of this thread is to make people think a little bit more about how to behave while judging.

 

[Cyrus C.]

I always try to step back and just look over their shoulder from a distance. If the tables are tight, just wait for the solver to finish rather than bumping them, assuming it's a small cube.

 

[Dene]

Basically, judges shouldn't be bumping into you but anything else you will just have to put up with because that is the nature of a competition. Same with Joey's problem.

 

[DavidWoner]

One thing I have always done as a courtesy to the solver- Since the stopwatches beep when you press the stop/reset buttons, I always put the stopwatch behind my back/under the table to stop/reset the stopwatch once the competitor has started solving in order to muffle the noise.

 

[EricReese]

My first competition a few weeks ago ago (I dont know if this is standard) but I had the same guy through all my solves, and he would announce how much time I had left in my inspection. Like I would be done inspecting in about 4 seconds, and at 9 seconds I would hear him say that 9 seconds had passed in inspection, and I would have already been long gone into my solve and it was very distracting. The first time he was like "Oh, you started" and it made me stop because i thought I did something wrong.

I hope not all of my judges will be like that. I just want to be left alone unless I do get close to inspection time limit (might happen with my OH solves (zz))

 

[Andreaillest]

You should really complain to the competition organizers or politely tell the judge to stop.

One problem I hear about is judges who talk or chat during a solve. That's very distracting to the solver and unappropriate.

 

[CharlieCooper]

If someone is really judging badly (rather that it being a consequence of the venue or nature of a competition) then you should mention it to the delegate and organiser of the competition so that they can be instructed just how to judge, or asked politely to refrain from doing so.

Picking up a pen/faffing with the stopwatch is however quite avoidable, so people should have the courtesy to not to that mid solve.

 

[Lucas Garron]

One thing I have always done as a courtesy to the solver- Since the stopwatches beep when you press the stop/reset buttons, I always put the stopwatch behind my back/under the table to stop/reset the stopwatch once the competitor has started solving in order to muffle the noise.

I do the same.

Does anybody want to start a courtesy protocol? It's becoming more and more clear that the WCA could benefit a lot from unofficial guidelines as distinct from things that need to be truly codified and standardized.

 

[MTGjumper]

My first competition a few weeks ago ago (I dont know if this is standard) but I had the same guy through all my solves, and he would announce how much time I had left in my inspection. Like I would be done inspecting in about 4 seconds, and at 9 seconds I would hear him say that 9 seconds had passed in inspection, and I would have already been long gone into my solve and it was very distracting. The first time he was like "Oh, you started" and it made me stop because i thought I did something wrong.

I hope not all of my judges will be like that. I just want to be left alone unless I do get close to inspection time limit (might happen with my OH solves (zz))

The judge is meant to say 8 seconds and 13 seconds at the corresponding time. However, they should realise if you had started your solve by then.

 

[Mike Hughey]

I think it's nice to bring this up occasionally, so maybe we can all learn from the experiences to make it better. I do think a courtesy protocol would be a nice idea.

One thing I have always done as a courtesy to the solver- Since the stopwatches beep when you press the stop/reset buttons, I always put the stopwatch behind my back/under the table to stop/reset the stopwatch once the competitor has started solving in order to muffle the noise.

Not too long ago, I bought some of these stopwatches. They don't beep, and don't have any of the extra modes that can confuse someone. And they're inexpensive! They're a little quirky - it feels kind of weird to not have the feedback of a beep. But they are quiet - they make no sound at all. (They say that's so you can use them for administering tests.) And they're a little more idiot-proof than the normal kind. (But it does sometimes get confusing when you have some of these and some normal ones, since the buttons work differently.)

 

[MichaelP.]

When I was doing OH, my judge popped 12 pieces all over the table. He also commented on it when I got an H-perm, mid H-perm (also OH). I find it a bit annoying, but it's a friendly environment and I didn't want to down anybody.

 

[amostay2004]

Hmm..I actually prefer that the judge don't care too much about judging me. I don't mind at all if they're solving a cube or talking to someone else (unless in BLD of course). I like when it feels as informal and not competition-like as it helps get some of my nervousness off

 

[RyanReese09]

I'd prefer if they payed attention to me, they are after all, judging me. I DEMAND THEIR ATTENTION.

but in all seriousness, if you judge, your expected to your job. be courteous to the solver and dont be distracting

i've personally never had a problem with a judge except it's very annoying whilst doing a big cube, and they looked bored and wish to not be there. detracts from the mood of the competition for me

 

[Stefan]

Doesn't article 11 of the rules already cover such incidents?

Not too long ago, I bought some of these stopwatches.

Look nice, though could be cheaper. What is "1/1000 resolution"?

 

[Lucas Garron]

Doesn't article 11 of the rules already cover such incidents?

It covers what to do if a (major) incident occurs, not what should be done to prevent unnecessary, unfair inconveniences for competitors.

Look nice, though could be cheaper. What is "1/1000 resolution"?

Obviously equivalent of the reliable "Stackmat accuracy" of 1/100 that SpeedStacks likes to brag about.