Scrambling device

[Michiel van der Blonk]

Casinos use card shuffling machines. Why don't we use something like that? Has anyone ever built or seen a scrambling device? I wonder if there would be a market for it (I'm no builder so I'm not going to make it.)

How much would it have to cost to make, what price would it have when mass produced? It could be a random scrambler, or one that can interface with a PC for scrambles. It might even speed up competitions or make them cheaper, easier to organize when lacking human scramblers. Also the machine wouldn't make mistakes!

It could be a challenge to make it work on any size cube, and esp. on e.g. Square-1.

 

[NeedReality]

I don't know if I see that working, as even 3x3s can be different sizes, have different tensions, and other variables like that. I think that, at least at this point in time, it's faster and easier to just have people scramble them.

 

[freshcuber]

Well there are Lego robots that when connected to a computer can solve cubes up to 7x7 so I'm sure with a little program tweaking they could be used to scramble but it's definitely faster to have a ciber scramble it. Atleast from the videos I've seen on rubiks.com they have to reposition the cube for each move so it would be like U then it would do a z' rotation for an R turn

 

[Ranzha]

I'm sure we've seen this:

What we'd do is make five of these, take off the webcam unit, insert solved cubes with W/G U/F, and initiate scrambling.
CubeExplorer would generate 5 scrambles, and the units would perform the scrambles individually.
Each unit would have installed on it the scramble program--all the work to be done is insert cube, press "GO" button, and take out cube.
EDIT: The units would have all five scramble sequences on them, too, labelled "3x3 R1-1" for 3x3 cube, Round 1, Scramble 1, et al.
Maybe five units wouldn't be enough, but heh, it makes things a little more efficient imo. Think of twenty of these units, with 4 on each scramble in all rounds for an event.
4 units programmed with scramble 1 for all rounds (three, most likely) with individual processes per scramble
4 units programmed with scramble 2 for all rounds (three, most likely) with individual processes per scramble
4 units programmed with scramble 3 for all rounds (three, most likely) with individual processes per scramble
4 units programmed with scramble 4 for all rounds (three, most likely) with individual processes per scramble
4 units programmed with scramble 5 for all rounds (three, most likely) with individual processes per scramble

However, the main problem I see with this is that building the units would take time, and the units have a certain amount of battery life. Hm.

 

[TheMachanga]

I've always thought this was a good idea, but I think a human scrambling is much faster. Unless it can scramble faster than most of us, it's useful.

 

[Michiel van der Blonk]

Well I certainly wasn't talking about LEGO-grade devices. I don't think in casinos they'd accept LEGO based card shufflers. I meant commercial stuff. I don't think it's impossible to have them turn at 3 moves per second and calibrate the device automatically to adjust to different tension etc.

 

[That70sShowDude]

I want a Square-1, 5x5, and Megaminx scrambling device.

 

[PatrickJameson]

Well I certainly wasn't talking about LEGO-grade devices. I don't think in casinos they'd accept LEGO based card shufflers. I meant commercial stuff. I don't think it's impossible to have them turn at 3 moves per second and calibrate the device automatically to adjust to different tension etc.

We would also have to worry about cubes that are unstable and pop easily, different sized cubes, etc. A human scrambler can easily account for these things. I just don't think it's practical at the moment.

 

[Cyrus C.]

Also, human volunteers are much cheaper.

 

[imaghost]

We would also have to worry about cubes that are unstable and pop easily, different sized cubes, etc. A human scrambler can easily account for these things. I just don't think it's practical at the moment.

It can make a perfect 90 degree turn, therefore, it should not pop. It has no need to cut corners backward or forward, so, in theory, it can not pop. I can think of a machine, that if programmed correctly, could possibly work. But of course you have to deal with different size cubes, that even an adjustable one would be impractical. Assuming everyone uses the same sized cube, or one that is very close, it is practical to make one. Again, though, a human would be much easier and cheaper. Judging by my knowledge, if I were to mass produce this product for the cubing community, it would go for around $50-100, depending on the price of the components and the labor involved. It would probably be much more though.

 

[Michiel van der Blonk]

Or... they'd be sold to individuals who can then decide to bring it to a competition.... It could then already be adjusted to the cube size and tension.

 

[FatBoyXPC]

Just like Freshcuber mentioned, I was thinking about the LEGO cube solving robots, except I've been recently wanting to make one to be a scrambler for me. I really want some LL training, and I have an LL trainer app that I found here on the forums. I find the recognition time unfair since I can recognize the OLL from the app alone, and when I'm getting close to the end of scrambling the cube I can also recognize the OLL. I want my LL training to be included in OLL recognition, otherwise I could just go for it and at least I'd get good PLL training out of it.

I think the LEGO cube robot could easily be made to account for different cube sizes. Put all the "arms" on a motor that automatically adjust to a certain amount of pressure touching each face of the cube and there you've got it. You'd obviously have to program "3x3, 4x4, 5x5, 6x6, 7x7" into it if you intend on it to be a multi-scrambler. I think it could work.

A commercial device would be great, but we'd probably have to get it made in china or something where it could also be incredibly cheap to make. I also think that using a LEGO cube robot at competitions would be perfectly acceptable. The great thing about this is that we could include it to have a cube cover and then you can do all 5 solves at once (just put one scrambler at each solve station).

The reason casinos don't use a LEGO card shuffler is because the Gaming Commission (or Gaming Board, depending on what state you live on) has very strict rules about what can be used. To use any device inside a casino it has to be approved through GLI (Gaming Laboratories International) and then the state's Gaming Commission needs to approve it. The exception to this is a casino on Native American land and they only have to abide by the Federal Gaming Commission. I'm only talking about the gaming laws in the US, but I'm sure others are pretty similar. I know that a lot of the top officials in the gaming world have been in multiple countries and the rules are at least similar on a per casino basis (although I'm not sure if it's become standard or because the gaming laws are similar)