Giving up Cubing for Lent

[Hyprul 9-ty2]

lol, qqwerf xD

 

[MichaelP.]

lol, qqwerf xD

WHY COULDN"T YOU LET THIS THREAD DIE!!!!

 

[Dene]

However, I do have a really hard time coming up with a christian that have really, really tried to disprove his belifes and yet coming out of it all as a christian.

EDIT: As I said, I was once a christian, and when I finally did question my belifes in an honest way it was all suddenly very, very clear.

Hang on, why are we trying to disprove our belief? What if my belief is that God is out there, just watching and not interfering in the lives of the living? How am I supposed to challenge this, or find reason to disbelieve it?

I think his point is that he doesn't know a christian who has challenged anything they were taught. It isn't a question of whether or not you can disprove it, the real question is, have they taken time to ponder what they believe in, instead of what they're told to believe in.

Pretty much this.

What single thing/idea/proof is there that outweighs everything that speaks against christianity?

I don't see how the two points are related at all.
On the first point: If you don't know any Christians who have really challenged their beliefs, then you can't know many Christians. I know the majority don't, but plenty do. Take myself and Lofty, for examples.

On the second point: Give me an explanation to the origins of existence. Just name it. When you do, you will be the most revered athiest of all time. Good luck.

 

[Edmund]

What am I giving up for Lent? Nothing, because I don't believe in fairy tales.

Presenting ideas like this just makes your side look like a load of *******s. I don't agree with you but if someone just wrote of your side like this I wouldn't like it.

I think when you state what your giving up for Lent it kind of gets rid of the purpose and turns it into almost a pride thing, but because we're all doing I'll say what I'm doinguring Lent I am really trying to be a better student, no meat on Fridays (obviously for Catholics), and I'm not listening to my music on the way to school, which is pretty annoying but it gives me more time for though and sometimes I pray in the morning now.

 

[Johan444]

However, I do have a really hard time coming up with a christian that have really, really tried to disprove his belifes and yet coming out of it all as a christian.

EDIT: As I said, I was once a christian, and when I finally did question my belifes in an honest way it was all suddenly very, very clear.

Hang on, why are we trying to disprove our belief? What if my belief is that God is out there, just watching and not interfering in the lives of the living? How am I supposed to challenge this, or find reason to disbelieve it?

I think his point is that he doesn't know a christian who has challenged anything they were taught. It isn't a question of whether or not you can disprove it, the real question is, have they taken time to ponder what they believe in, instead of what they're told to believe in.

Pretty much this.

What single thing/idea/proof is there that outweighs everything that speaks against christianity?

I don't see how the two points are related at all.
On the first point: If you don't know any Christians who have really challenged their beliefs, then you can't know many Christians. I know the majority don't, but plenty do. Take myself and Lofty, for examples.

On the second point: Give me an explanation to the origins of existence. Just name it. When you do, you will be the most revered athiest of all time. Good luck.

The way the two points are related is that if you question your belief taking as much information and knowledge about christianity and non-theist science as you can and weigh the arguments against each other it should appear that the existance of a christian God is the least probable, by a big margin, of the two.

And if you're not going to base your belief on probability then on what? Are you saying that there has to be a God since there are no answers on how life started?

I assume you had a traditional christian belief earlier since you said you did change after questioning it. However it seems that your current belief is not a christian one. So you went from christian ---> religious non-christian.
If you're saying that your current belief is an alternative christian belief I cannot do other than disagree since I don't think a passive God is a christian God.

I can't say how the origins of existence started since I have not yet stumbled across a theory that seems probable enough. Is this a proof that there must be a God? (no).

 

[Muesli]

It's a matter of choice. Both Christianity and Atheism are the two sides of the same coin that explains the universe. The only difference is that Science is striving to understand the universe better, whilst Christianity is happy to stick with what it has now. There is nothing wrong with that at all, in the same way that you wouldn't criticise someone for buying another Ford car after their old one.

I am Athiest, and I strive to be tolerant of all other points of view but the one thing that annoys me is people preaching to me. Everyone has different beliefs, and nobody should think that anybody elses beliefs are inferior. Christianity is the following of Faith with little logic, and Atheism is the pursuit of Logic with little Faith. NEITHER ONE IS BETTER BECAUSE THEY CANNOT BE COMPARED.

Now please, stop arguing and let the thread die on its own.

 

[Dene]

Actually I don't believe in a passive God. I think I implied that rather carelessly earlier, excuse me.
Naturally the origins of existence is not the only thing that maintains my belief in God. I usually use this example because it is so strong. The only way to respond to this problem without involving a deity is to say that the universe itself contains the supernatural powers required to exist (By "supernatural powers" I mean some sort of thing not currently explainable by physics, i.e. infinite existence outside of space-time).

I'm tired and haven't worded that very well, but hopefully you see the point.

And in fact I do base my belief on probability. We have two choices: we exist purely through chance; or, we exist through the guidance of an infinite supernatural power. I think the supernatural power is more probable than chance. You probably disagree. By this I am not proposing intelligent design or creationism or anything silly like that. I don't believe in a passive God, but I also do not think God is involved in huge amounts. I believe God got things going, and then tinkers around when God feels like it. I am a firm believer in free will, not just of humans, but of the universe. God doesn't put things exactly where they belong; God allows them to go with the flow, so to speak.

Have you heard of the simulation argument? If not, I can explain briefly tomorrow. But not now.

 

[Zane_C]

I can't be bothered reading through this thread, but are you guys arguing? Maby this thread should just die.

 

[AndyRoo789]

Yea.
Religion thread = Never ending argument.

 

[Johan444]

Actually I don't believe in a passive God. I think I implied that rather carelessly earlier, excuse me.
Naturally the origins of existence is not the only thing that maintains my belief in God. I usually use this example because it is so strong. The only way to respond to this problem without involving a deity is to say that the universe itself contains the supernatural powers required to exist (By "supernatural powers" I mean some sort of thing not currently explainable by physics, i.e. infinite existence outside of space-time).

I'm tired and haven't worded that very well, but hopefully you see the point.

And in fact I do base my belief on probability. We have two choices: we exist purely through chance; or, we exist through the guidance of an infinite supernatural power. I think the supernatural power is more probable than chance. You probably disagree. By this I am not proposing intelligent design or creationism or anything silly like that. I don't believe in a passive God, but I also do not think God is involved in huge amounts. I believe God got things going, and then tinkers around when God feels like it. I am a firm believer in free will, not just of humans, but of the universe. God doesn't put things exactly where they belong; God allows them to go with the flow, so to speak.

Have you heard of the simulation argument? If not, I can explain briefly tomorrow. But not now.

On the origins point, I think there is a chance that we eventually will discover probable theories that are based on physics wich could explain how everything started. Just because there aren't any yet does not mean that they will not be found.

Chance vs. the existance of a concious almighty entity per se are both very very unlikely, I have not seen anything that speak for either of them and therefore I can't say that I belive in either. However, I do find the probality of the existence of a christian God as pictured in the bible, to 0.

So maybe to sum it up, you have made your conlusion while I've not yet and maybe never will.

I checked up in the simulation argument a little but cannot see where it does fit in here.

 

[iasimp1997]

Either someone close this thread or let it die. Threads like this NEVER end.
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18097

 

[Tortin]

Actually I don't believe in a passive God. I think I implied that rather carelessly earlier, excuse me.
Naturally the origins of existence is not the only thing that maintains my belief in God. I usually use this example because it is so strong. The only way to respond to this problem without involving a deity is to say that the universe itself contains the supernatural powers required to exist (By "supernatural powers" I mean some sort of thing not currently explainable by physics, i.e. infinite existence outside of space-time).

I'm tired and haven't worded that very well, but hopefully you see the point.

And in fact I do base my belief on probability. We have two choices: we exist purely through chance; or, we exist through the guidance of an infinite supernatural power. I think the supernatural power is more probable than chance. You probably disagree. By this I am not proposing intelligent design or creationism or anything silly like that. I don't believe in a passive God, but I also do not think God is involved in huge amounts. I believe God got things going, and then tinkers around when God feels like it. I am a firm believer in free will, not just of humans, but of the universe. God doesn't put things exactly where they belong; God allows them to go with the flow, so to speak.

Have you heard of the simulation argument? If not, I can explain briefly tomorrow. But not now.

The thing is, just because it's not A, does not automatically make it B. And you also say 'not currently explainable', which is true, but does not, by any means mean that it will always be not explainable.

I don't really agree with your statement that we exist 'purely through chance.' There was a good youtube video explaining it. I'll try to find it, because I'm not very good at explaining.

 

[RyanO]

I can't say how the origins of existence started since I have not yet stumbled across a theory that seems probable enough. Is this a proof that there must be a God? (no).

Is this proof that God doesn't exist? No.

Please realize that your conclusion is not the only rational choice. The only time I really get upset with religious people is when they try to convince me that their beliefs are better than mine. You are doing the same thing. If you are correct and God doesn't exist, does it really matter if some people believe that God does exist? You stand nothing to gain from attacking someone else's beliefs.

 

[Johan444]

I can't say how the origins of existence started since I have not yet stumbled across a theory that seems probable enough. Is this a proof that there must be a God? (no).

Is this proof that God doesn't exist? No.

Please realize that your conclusion is not the only rational choice. The only time I really get upset with religious people is when they try to convince me that their beliefs are better than mine. You are doing the same thing. If you are correct and God doesn't exist, does it really matter if some people believe that God does exist? You stand nothing to gain from attacking someone else's beliefs.

What that was aimed for was the christians that says that God exists because no other theory is proven. i.e. "You cannot prove evolution, therefore God exists."

If I understand you right you think I mean that "if neither can be proven, my theory must be right".

What I mean is that everyone should base their beliefs on the strenghts of theories rather than the weaknesses of other theories. Wich is what I (and some christans) do, even if it did not sound like it.

 

[Deleted member 2864]

I can't say how the origins of existence started since I have not yet stumbled across a theory that seems probable enough. Is this a proof that there must be a God? (no).

Is this proof that God doesn't exist? No.

Please realize that your conclusion is not the only rational choice. The only time I really get upset with religious people is when they try to convince me that their beliefs are better than mine. You are doing the same thing. If you are correct and God doesn't exist, does it really matter if some people believe that God does exist? You stand nothing to gain from attacking someone else's beliefs.

What that was aimed for was the christians that says that God exists because no other theory is proven. i.e. "You cannot prove evolution, therefore God exists."

If I understand you right you think I mean that "if neither can be proven, my theory must be right".

What I mean is that everyone should base their beliefs on the strenghts of theories rather than the weaknesses of other theories. Wich is what I (and some christans) do, even if it did not sound like it.

Christianity isn't a theory, it's a faith. You're not supposed to know, your'e supposed to believe. Such is part of the basis of Abrahamic religions as far as I know.

The whole idea of Abrahamic religions is that the said follower should be able to trust that God is real.

 

[RyanO]

Questioning your beliefs is advocated in the Bible. If you are a Christian you should question your beliefs.

 

[Lofty]

For those of you saying that this thread needs to be closed or die, why do you care? Just stop reading the thread! At this point you know whats going in the thread and as far as I know you are not being forced to read it. Maybe we enjoy arguing about religion? Tho at this point I would say its much more of a discussion.
Questioning things is commended in the Bible. Like if the Bible taught something that was very obviously not true, like demanded that the earth was flat and if you didn't think the earth was flat you were a heretic, I would probably not believe other things the Bible says.
A belief in God is somewhat based upon logic. Its certainly not in spite of logic.
I don't know any Christian who will say because evolution can't be proven the Bible/God is true. Thats just nonsense.
Also just because someone is a Christian does not mean that they can not also be a scientist. So one can be a Christian and still try to learn more about the universe around them. Some people are even more spurred on to be scientists because they are Christians because they want to learn about the intricacies of God's creation. The Psalms do say the heavens declare the glory of God.

 

[CitricAcid]

[Relevant To Thread Topic]I'm giving up carbonated beverages and food such as chocolate, cookies, brownies, etc. And of course, no meat on Friday.[/Relevant To Thread Topic]

 

[aronpm]

Either someone close this thread or let it die. Threads like this NEVER end.
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18097

WHY COULDN"T YOU LET THIS THREAD DIE!!!!

I can't be bothered reading through this thread, but are you guys arguing? Maby this thread should just die.

Yea.
Religion thread = Never ending argument.

Now please, stop arguing and let the thread die on its own.

There is no reason why this thread should be closed. There is intelligent discussion going on discussing religious beliefs. If you can't handle that, stop reading the thread.

 

[TheMatureOne]

Nothing, because I don't believe in myths.