Requesting some 4x4 Help!

[minsarker]

I need some help with the 4x4. My times for 3x3 and 4x4 are below, please take a look.

I know my 3x3 solve is not that fast, but for some reason it shows so much on the 4x4...I average around a 40sec 3x3 but when I break down my 4x4, I noticed that my 3x3 stage is like a 1:30, more than double. I understand that some of that time is parity, but usually that doesnt take very long. I am using an EastSheen that is somewhat brand new, its had about 40 solves on it.

One reason I think I am so slow at the 3x3 stage is because I usually solve by looking ahead and moving fast but now I can still look ahead but I cant turn as well. My cube locks up a lot, as with most ES4, and of course doesnt cut corners. I use a 3x3 storebought so corner cutting isnt something I am used to so we can eliminate that.

But I really want to get better at the 4x4 and at this point, I am working on making my centers and doing edge pairing a little faster but I see a chunk of time wasted on the 3x3 step.

Also for the edges, I am doing the very basic beginner method of matching on edge, and exchanging it for another random pairing and repeating.

Any help whatsoever is appreciated! Thanks!

 

[Novriil]

4x4 3x3 step is always slower.. I think. On bigcubes noone solves with 9 seconds the 3x3 part.. Not only because of the parity but also it's harder to recognize cases. especially OLL-s for me.

Get better in 3x3 and you will get better on a 4x4

 

[minsarker]

4x4 3x3 step is always slower.. I think. On bigcubes noone solves with 9 seconds the 3x3 part.. Not only because of the parity but also it's harder to recognize cases. especially OLL-s for me.

Get better in 3x3 and you will get better on a 4x4

Well I understand I would be slower but 2x+ slower? That just sounds unbelievable to me. Also, I do an avg of 5 on the 4x4, then move to the 3x3. Because the ES locks up so much, I get into more accurate turning and then when I solve my 3x3 my times are that much better. I then do a 2x2 avg 5 and repeat the cycle whenever I have a chance.

Should I try a different 4x4 method for edge pairing or just practice and practice? I have only solved the 4x4 about 50 times or so I would say.

 

[ChrisBird]

For why your 3x3 step is slower then it is on a normal 3x3 is most/all of the following:
1) Eastsheen can't cut corners.
2) Bigger cubes are harder to control compared to 3x3s unless you have ginormous hands.
3) No 15 second inspection is given before 3x3 step when solving 4x4. So when fixing the last 4 edge pairs, you have to be looking ahead for your cross.
4) Parity. Duh.


For me 3x3 Avg is like 21ish, and on 6x6 3x3 solve without parity is 35ish, so much slower. And on 7x7 it is terrible, around 45-50 seconds.

So for the above reasons, that is why I think your 3x3 time on 4x4 is so much higher.

As for edge pairing, there are a few methods I know of.
1) 2 at a time: Bring 2 pieces into M or E layer (whichever you slice on) and make a pair, then when storing that pair bring in an edge so when you slice back you make another pair. Continue for all 8.
2) 2-2-2-2 edge pairing: Get 2 pieces to make pair, then with the other piece with ontop of bottom of the piece you are making, find the other edge and bring it in, slice to make 2 pairs, store pairs and bring more pieces in, slice back to make third and forth pair, and continue in this fashion until you have done all 8.
3) 3-3-2: Same as above, except you continue the 'chain' around, so when you make your first slice you make 3 pairs.
4) 6-2: Same as 3-3-2 except when you slice back you make three more. However this requires much more look ahead.

Also for parity: There is an algorithm you can learn that will fix both OLL and PLL parity, so once you assess if you have parity or not, and which ones, you will only need to apply one algorithm. This alg can be found by searching the wiki or google.
Hope this helps.

 

[DavidWoner]

1) Eastsheen can't cut corners.

FALSE.

Why does everyone believe and perpetuate this lie? They just need a little love.

2) Bigger cubes are harder to control compared to 3x3s unless you have ginormous hands.
3) No 15 second inspection is given before 3x3 step when solving 4x4. So when fixing the last 4 edge pairs, you have to be looking ahead for your cross.
4) Parity. Duh.

This, however, is true.

 

[Hyprul 9-ty2]

Chris I must be missing out on something >_> My 3x3 step on the 4x4 is the same as yours on the 6x6.

 

[ChrisBird]

1) Eastsheen can't cut corners.

FALSE.

Why does everyone believe and perpetuate this lie? They just need a little love.

2) Bigger cubes are harder to control compared to 3x3s unless you have ginormous hands.
3) No 15 second inspection is given before 3x3 step when solving 4x4. So when fixing the last 4 edge pairs, you have to be looking ahead for your cross.
4) Parity. Duh.

This, however, is true.

I should have clarified, new Eastsheens cannot cut corners without any mods/breaking in.

 

[JLarsen]

Woner, please define loving. What exactly does this hunk of plastic want before it will turn well? I'm all for prostitution.

 

[dunpeal2064]

Woner, please define loving. What exactly does this hunk of plastic want before it will turn well? I'm all for prostitution.

I agree! Share the secrets of the love. I am slowly but surely developing a hate for my ES 4x4. but I would love to love it again xD

 

[James Ludlow]

I think moving on is the easy part, letting go of whats left behind is the hard part. In this instance, the ES.

 

[miniGOINGS]

but I would love to love it again xD

You would love to love...?

 

[dunpeal2064]

but I would love to love it again xD

You would love to love...?

yes... or at least i'm assuming i'd love to love... but I wouldn't know since I'm currently not loving... my ES at least

 

[rjohnson_8ball]

I want to know too. My ES4x4 and ES5x5 lock up so badly I rarely use them. I use my QJ4x4 cubes and V5 cubes instead.

 

[minsarker]

For why your 3x3 step is slower then it is on a normal 3x3 is most/all of the following:
1) Eastsheen can't cut corners.
2) Bigger cubes are harder to control compared to 3x3s unless you have ginormous hands.
3) No 15 second inspection is given before 3x3 step when solving 4x4. So when fixing the last 4 edge pairs, you have to be looking ahead for your cross.
4) Parity. Duh.


For me 3x3 Avg is like 21ish, and on 6x6 3x3 solve without parity is 35ish, so much slower. And on 7x7 it is terrible, around 45-50 seconds.

So for the above reasons, that is why I think your 3x3 time on 4x4 is so much higher.

As for edge pairing, there are a few methods I know of.
1) 2 at a time: Bring 2 pieces into M or E layer (whichever you slice on) and make a pair, then when storing that pair bring in an edge so when you slice back you make another pair. Continue for all 8.
2) 2-2-2-2 edge pairing: Get 2 pieces to make pair, then with the other piece with ontop of bottom of the piece you are making, find the other edge and bring it in, slice to make 2 pairs, store pairs and bring more pieces in, slice back to make third and forth pair, and continue in this fashion until you have done all 8.
3) 3-3-2: Same as above, except you continue the 'chain' around, so when you make your first slice you make 3 pairs.
4) 6-2: Same as 3-3-2 except when you slice back you make three more. However this requires much more look ahead.

Also for parity: There is an algorithm you can learn that will fix both OLL and PLL parity, so once you assess if you have parity or not, and which ones, you will only need to apply one algorithm. This alg can be found by searching the wiki or google.
Hope this helps.

Hmm thanks so much for the help. Ya I understand my 3x3 step should be slower but 1:30 is just unreal to me. But if you guys get around 21s with your regular 3x3 much faster than thats understandable. I may look into a better edge pairing method. Thanks again!

1) Eastsheen can't cut corners.

FALSE.

Why does everyone believe and perpetuate this lie? They just need a little love.

2) Bigger cubes are harder to control compared to 3x3s unless you have ginormous hands.
3) No 15 second inspection is given before 3x3 step when solving 4x4. So when fixing the last 4 edge pairs, you have to be looking ahead for your cross.
4) Parity. Duh.

This, however, is true.

How can I make my eastsheen cut corners or move faster with less lockups?

1) Eastsheen can't cut corners.

FALSE.

Why does everyone believe and perpetuate this lie? They just need a little love.

2) Bigger cubes are harder to control compared to 3x3s unless you have ginormous hands.
3) No 15 second inspection is given before 3x3 step when solving 4x4. So when fixing the last 4 edge pairs, you have to be looking ahead for your cross.
4) Parity. Duh.

This, however, is true.

I should have clarified, new Eastsheens cannot cut corners without any mods/breaking in.

What mods can help? And how long does it take to break in?

 

[ChrisBird]

I don't know how to mod an Eastsheen 4x4, considering I'd much rather use a QJ or Meffert's.

However I have heard of people using Diansheng springs in them, I tried and didn't get any results but you could try.

 

[minsarker]

I don't know how to mod an Eastsheen 4x4, considering I'd much rather use a QJ or Meffert's.

However I have heard of people using Diansheng springs in them, I tried and didn't get any results but you could try.

Hmm well I dont own a diansheng so I guess ill just stick to regular breaking in and buy a QJ or mefferts later.

Thanks!

 

[ADKLco]

It's almost true

1) Eastsheen can't cut corners.

FALSE.

Why does everyone believe and perpetuate this lie? They just need a little love.

2) Bigger cubes are harder to control compared to 3x3s unless you have ginormous hands.
3) No 15 second inspection is given before 3x3 step when solving 4x4. So when fixing the last 4 edge pairs, you have to be looking ahead for your cross.
4) Parity. Duh.

This, however, is true.

It's true that Eastsheens can't cut corners out of the box, maybe a little but not more than 1/8 of a piece, I have the Eastsheen family (2x2-5x5) and they were smooth out of the box, but can't cut corners, I worked them in for about 1 year and my 2x2 is amazing, my 4x4 can but 1/4 of a piece, and my 5x5 is going to be in pieces if I keep using it (way to loose). So they do need a little love, but you need some paitience. (did I spell that right)?

 

[jiggy]

Also for the edges, I am doing the very basic beginner method of matching on edge, and exchanging it for another random pairing and repeating.

I'm really quite bad at 4x4 so perhaps I'm not the best person to offer advice here, but I stumbled into this edge pairing tutorial on youtube which I found really helpful. Essentially, it gives a good explanation of pairing many edges at once:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxO54OfqcsE

I hope you find it as helpful as I did