The Difference Between Algorithmic and Intuitive F2L

JTW2007

BattsMan
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So, now that I've been doing a lot of F2L work, I'm confused over the difference between algorithmic and intuitive. I just went through multiple pages of F2L algs, and it seems that I was able to easily derive one or more of the listed solutions intuitively without memorizing the algs. There were four cases I didn't get, and that I had to look up, but other than that, my solutions match those on most web pages. That lead me to question what the difference between intuitive and algorithmic was, and if algorithmic really does have any advantage over intuitive. It seems to me that the only difference is in recognition, not in actual performance, which in turn leads me to believe that algorithmic is more like intuitive without opportunities for multislotting, prioritization of slots, or LL edge control. If that is indeed the case, then what benefit does it offer?
 
The only algs I use are for about 1/3 of the cases with the pair connected in U. All the other ones are pretty intuitive based on other cases and empty slots and such. Quicker recognition I would believe. Although it's debatable on what's better, slow recognition during an alg or quick recognition with a pause.
 
true, and I use intuition on them too. I like the ones where they are connected and the color on top matches. It's one I figured out myself, and its probbably the alg they give you. R B L U' L' B' R' when the edge is on the UF and needs to go in RF and the corner is on the right of it.
 
So, now that I've been doing a lot of F2L work, I'm confused over the difference between algorithmic and intuitive. I just went through multiple pages of F2L algs, and it seems that I was able to easily derive one or more of the listed solutions intuitively without memorizing the algs. There were four cases I didn't get, and that I had to look up, but other than that, my solutions match those on most web pages. That lead me to question what the difference between intuitive and algorithmic was, and if algorithmic really does have any advantage over intuitive. It seems to me that the only difference is in recognition, not in actual performance, which in turn leads me to believe that algorithmic is more like intuitive without opportunities for multislotting, prioritization of slots, or LL edge control. If that is indeed the case, then what benefit does it offer?
My opinion: I don't get what the big fuss is about. I see no big difference between algorithmic and intuitive. Really, I don't see much difference.

I learned Fridrich F2L (henceforth abbreviated as F2L) from Macky's page, back in the day, he was THE man from whom to learn everything :D On his F2L page, he listed all the "algorithms" in an A-B format. B was [AUF] R U/U2/U' R', and A was the setup. B is very obviously intuitive even for a beginner. So I "memorized" the "algorithms" for A for all 41 cases. A was almost always 3 moves, and when an "algorithm" is just 3 moves, there's no way anyone can't understand how it works after messing around with it long enough.

So tell me, am I using algorithmic or intuitive F2L? I don't know. I tell everyone I use algorithmic, because honestly, I didn't discover the As for all 41 cases on my own. I looked up the answers on Macky's page and memorized it, and understood it later.

Some people learn by working out the problems on their own, and then looking up the answers at the back of the textbook later on. Others just cut the crap and read the answers right away and learn from them, and most importantly, they spend only half the time learning the same thing ;)

I wasn't taught how to use empty slots for A, I just did it right from the very beginning on my own, it was only logical and natural. I was shocked to find that it was actually considered an "advanced F2L technique" sometime later, and that some people who claim to do intuitive F2L actually didn't know about such a technique :confused:

Really. What's the big fuss about?

I have a question for you people who claim to use intuitive F2L and absolutely despise others who claim to use algorithmic F2L: Do you honestly think there are people stupid enough to memorize a 7-move "algorithm" like R U R' U' R U2 R', and not understand it at all, and only know how to apply it when they see the exact case in front of their eyes? Do you honestly think there are people stupid enough to do the same for 41 cases? Or do you just want to make yourselves feel better by telling yourself that you "understand the cube much more than those silly algorithmic-F2L-people"? I apologize if my tone was aggressive or anything, I wanted to put in a little sarcasm because I really can't stand how most people think that intuitive F2L is superior to algorithmic F2L, when there really isn't much difference between the two.

By the way, I'd really like to know what you guys think of the way I learned F2L, do you consider it intuitive F2L or algorithmic F2L? I believe I'm not the only one who learned F2L this way, and I'd like to know under which category do others and I fall.
 
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true, and I use intuition on them too. I like the ones where they are connected and the color on top matches. It's one I figured out myself, and its probbably the alg they give you. R B L U' L' B' R' when the edge is on the UF and needs to go in RF and the corner is on the right of it.
R U' R U2' R2' U' R2 U' R2
 
I wasn't really using empty slots till I saw a vid about it from I think it was lance. I'm not sure, but I thought it was pretty simple once I learned it though.

Ooh. I like that alg. I'll have to save it till I get my 3x3 back to learn it. lol
 
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Still not sure what case you guys are talking about. Can you provide a pic?
Try undoing the given algorithm? :fp

Anyway, here it is:
f3.png
 
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Oh, sorry. 3:00 am isn't really my thinking time. :o I use: y L' U L U2 y' R U R'. If I can sub-2 it, I don't really care to change it.
 
Oh, sorry. 3:00 am isn't really my thinking time. :o I use: y L' U L U2 y' R U R'. If I can sub-2 it, I don't really care to change it.
Yes but you require TWO rotations, which means at least two regrips. The alg I provided requires ZERO rotations and ZERO regrips, and is RU 2-gen. There's no way you can argue past that ;) Unless, of course, you're just lazy to change, not unlike me in most cases :o
 
Oh, sorry. 3:00 am isn't really my thinking time. :o I use: y L' U L U2 y' R U R'. If I can sub-2 it, I don't really care to change it.
Yes but you require TWO rotations, which means at least two regrips. The alg I provided requires ZERO rotations and ZERO regrips, and is RU 2-gen. There's no way you can argue past that ;) Unless, of course, you're just lazy to change, not unlike me in most cases :o

I use y' R' U R y R U R'. I do learn algos for tougher cases but those that put a cross edge on the U layer really throws off my intuition so I'll always avoid them
 
Oh, sorry. 3:00 am isn't really my thinking time. :o I use: y L' U L U2 y' R U R'. If I can sub-2 it, I don't really care to change it.
Yes but you require TWO rotations, which means at least two regrips. The alg I provided requires ZERO rotations and ZERO regrips, and is RU 2-gen. There's no way you can argue past that ;) Unless, of course, you're just lazy to change, not unlike me in most cases :o

Yeah, that's true. The only thing greater than a 2-gen RU alg with no regrips is a 2-gen MU alg with no regrips.
 
After mastering F2L there is only a very small difference between alg-based and intuitive, but the learning process is quite different.

In the end intuitive is best because you can take advantage of empty slots and use different insertions so multi-slotting and edge-control can be performed. Alg-based is best for hard cases and for some cases that require multiple cube-rotations.

So basically: Learn both and apply according to the situation

(for FMC, alg-based really, really, really sucks)
 
I would probably make a good case study for this situation, as I initially learned F2L entirely from algorithms.

When I first began cubing, I didn't know anyone else that could solve the cube using any method other than the Dan Knight beginner method that was included with the store bought cubes. There also wasn't as much information online at the time, and what WAS online wasn't really organized as well.

[InterestingSideStory]After trying for two straight days, for a total of probably 16 hours... I was getting really upset because despite following those instructions to a T, I could still not solve the cube. I ended up doing some poking around on the net until I discovered Dan's email address and emailed him asking for any suggestions. Dan responded promptly and informed me that one of the algorithms in the booklet was indeed wrong and that the booklet was actually still in draft form and was not supposed to be published. I wonder how many people gave up trying to solve the cube because of this... I thought it was very cool of Dan to respond so quickly and help me out though.[/InterestingSideStory]

Since I didn't know any cubers, I didn't have anyone to tell me that I should learn f2l intuitively... so I did the only thing I knew to do; I found a page of algorithms and started memorizing. I didn't learn all of them, I actually didn't learn very many of them. I memo'd the 10 cases in which the cross color on the corner cubie is facing to the left, then I learned the mirrors, and for the remaining cases(cross color on top) I just did an [R U2 R' U'] to put the corner into a case that I knew. I became VERY quick with execution using this method, however my recognition was horrible.

The best thing that ever happened to my f2l, was when I quit cubing for over a year. When I picked the cube back up after that time, I realized that I had forgotten all of the f2l algorithms, so I took that opportunity to instead learn f2l intuitively. I, at first, tried to follow along and learn the cases from badmephisto's f2l vid... but I just wasn't able to comprehend what was going on. I spent some time just messing around on my own and started to figure out a few cases, then went back and watched the vid again and was able to understand everything finally.

I now use about 50/50 algorithms vs. intuitive. The difference now however, is that I actually understand HOW the algorithms work.

I guess the point I am trying to make with all of this, is that there really isn't a difference in an algorithmic or intuitive approach as long as you understand how the algorithms work. The problem lies with just blindly memorizing moves like I did without any regard to how they work.
 
After mastering F2L there is only a very small difference between alg-based and intuitive, but the learning process is quite different.

In the end intuitive is best because you can take advantage of empty slots and use different insertions so multi-slotting and edge-control can be performed. Alg-based is best for hard cases and for some cases that require multiple cube-rotations.

So basically: Learn both and apply according to the situation

(for FMC, alg-based really, really, really sucks)

That's probably the winning answer.
 
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