DONT WORRY, WE CAN SAVE 2 PAD

[iguana]

But the only reason of this change is becuase of litreally Yiheng Wang, meaning its not our fault, and BLD solves is kinda hard becuase we are all used to 2 pad. (Sorry of spelling mistakes)

We are all used to 2pad for 3x3 though. I'm really sorry and I'm not trying to be rude but this isn't going anywhere.

 

[bloxy5cuber]

Freaking 4-PAD is insufferable, how are we supposed to cope with this now? (also btw people are gonna have to buy FRIKIN G5 for personal practice, but I don't have a problem with that since I have G5 timer.

 

[OtaMota]

But the only reason of this change is becuase of litreally Yiheng Wang, meaning its not our fault,

First, it’s not just Yiheng, people have been sliding before and after him. Second, how can we be sure that people like Sujan and Zayn have not slided any solve? We don’t have footage of all their solves. Can we be 100% all of their solves are clean? The point of 4-pad is so that we can have more certainty of the of the legalities of top solves without having to wait for a vid.

Edit: also, people have been proposing 4-pad even before the 0.78, it’s entirely possible that we would have 4-pad even without Yiheng, though the 0.78 certainly helped. https://forum.worldcubeassociation.org/t/require-the-use-of-4-pad-mode/40218 (WCA forum thread dated Sep 2023)

 

[bloxy5cuber]

True, I think it really is just to disable sliding, but like really? They just have to put in place stricter rules.

 

[OtaMota]

True, I think it really is just to disable sliding, but like really? They just have to put in place stricter rules.

4-pad is the stricter rules lmao

 

[bloxy5cuber]

I know but is it like TOO strict for the people used for 2-Pad? Also as stated by other people we are used to 3x3 2-pad even tho there is slide lmao

 

[AJT17]

But the only reason of this change is becuase of litreally Yiheng Wang, meaning its not our fault, and BLD solves is kinda hard becuase we are all used to 2 pad. (Sorry of spelling mistakes)

Did you even watch any of the clip I gave?

Because Kevin literally says the bigger issue isn't from Yiheng, but from all the slower solvers, and their stops specifically. There are a ton of little kids who stop the timer with their wrists, or the side of their hands. If you think it's purely because of Yiheng, then you're delusional and not paying attention to the facts. Yes, in some part, it is because of Yiheng, but the majority of it truly comes from the larger group of people with bad stops.

4-pad doesn't make it any more difficult, and complaining about it means you're either a child, or you have bad stops and you're cheating. Literally what Kevin said in the clip I provided, that if you had watched, this reply wouldn't have made sense to make. So please, watch the clip before making any other comments, because Kevin and a lot of other people at the WCA have spent a good amount of time making sure this was the best decision.

And again, for BLD, just reread, or read it for the first time, because that's not a good excuse. Yes, we are used to 2-pad, of course you can't be perfect with 4-pad after 3 seconds, literally what Kevin said, but long term, it becomes negligible.

It's blatantly obvious you didn't watch the clip I provided, because Kevin went over everything you're complaining about, and so did I. So you definitely didn't watch the clip, and most likely didn't even read what I wrote. So if you want to have an actual discussion about this, then read what I wrote, and watch the clip. Or you can keep being ignorant, and complaining about non-issues.

Freaking 4-PAD is insufferable, how are we supposed to cope with this now? (also btw people are gonna have to buy FRIKIN G5 for personal practice, but I don't have a problem with that since I have G5 timer.

4-pad is literally not. I have only used it for the past few days, and I'm already nearly 100% with my starts/stops. I haven't really lost any significant amount of time I wouldn't also lose between good and bad days.

True, I think it really is just to disable sliding, but like really? They just have to put in place stricter rules.

Like I said above, sliding makes up a minority of the decision for implementing 4-pad. The main reason, is because of the little kids who cheat their stops.

I know but is it like TOO strict for the people used for 2-Pad? Also as stated by other people we are used to 3x3 2-pad even tho there is slide lmao

2-pad gives way to extremely easy cheating, because all of these little kids averaging 2, 3, 4 seconds on 2x2, stop with their wrists, or still holding the puzzle. Kevin talks about this in the clip, and the kids push back on being told not to cheat. So yes, 4-pad is perfectly reasonable, and complaining about it just means you haven't done any 4-pad solves, or you are cheating your starts/stops, then at that point, it makes no sense to argue against it.

 

[OtaMota]

I know but is it like TOO strict for the people used for 2-Pad? Also as stated by other people we are used to 3x3 2-pad even tho there is slide lmao

It really isn’t, I have been using 4-pad since 2024 back when I was a 2x2 main. It is really not that hard to adjust to 4-pad after sometime. The adjustment phase is a trade off for the much larger benefits of an increase of legitimization for the top results in our community

 

[bloxy5cuber]

I get you, when I started anyway I used 4-pad but for like WR I think 2 pad might be essential or smth, just an opinion

 

[bloxy5cuber]

Did you even watch any of the clip I gave?

Because Kevin literally says the bigger issue isn't from Yiheng, but from all the slower solvers, and their stops specifically. There are a ton of little kids who stop the timer with their wrists, or the side of their hands. If you think it's purely because of Yiheng, then you're delusional and not paying attention to the facts. Yes, in some part, it is because of Yiheng, but the majority of it truly comes from the larger group of people with bad stops.

4-pad doesn't make it any more difficult, and complaining about it means you're either a child, or you have bad stops and you're cheating. Literally what Kevin said in the clip I provided, that if you had watched, this reply wouldn't have made sense to make. So please, watch the clip before making any other comments, because Kevin and a lot of other people at the WCA have spent a good amount of time making sure this was the best decision.

And again, for BLD, just reread, or read it for the first time, because that's not a good excuse. Yes, we are used to 2-pad, of course you can't be perfect with 4-pad after 3 seconds, literally what Kevin said, but long term, it becomes negligible.

It's blatantly obvious you didn't watch the clip I provided, because Kevin went over everything you're complaining about, and so did I. So you definitely didn't watch the clip, and most likely didn't even read what I wrote. So if you want to have an actual discussion about this, then read what I wrote, and watch the clip. Or you can keep being ignorant, and complaining about non-issues.


4-pad is literally not. I have only used it for the past few days, and I'm already nearly 100% with my starts/stops. I haven't really lost any significant amount of time I wouldn't also lose between good and bad days.


Like I said above, sliding makes up a minority of the decision for implementing 4-pad. The main reason, is because of the little kids who cheat their stops.


2-pad gives way to extremely easy cheating, because all of these little kids averaging 2, 3, 4 seconds on 2x2, stop with their wrists, or still holding the puzzle. Kevin talks about this in the clip, and the kids push back on being told not to cheat. So yes, 4-pad is perfectly reasonable, and complaining about it just means you haven't done any 4-pad solves, or you are cheating your starts/stops, then at that point, it makes no sense to argue against it.

that makes a lot of sense, I might just be over-dramatic because if people aren't having a problem with it, there might be something wrong with my solves. maybe some lack of practice might be why, I don't cube all the time because of school but I do it mostly.

 

[bloxy5cuber]

and also the leverage to cheating is big, so I think they should implement 4-pad. Maybe for some events, however, could it be 2-pad?

Did you even watch any of the clip I gave?

Because Kevin literally says the bigger issue isn't from Yiheng, but from all the slower solvers, and their stops specifically. There are a ton of little kids who stop the timer with their wrists, or the side of their hands. If you think it's purely because of Yiheng, then you're delusional and not paying attention to the facts. Yes, in some part, it is because of Yiheng, but the majority of it truly comes from the larger group of people with bad stops.

4-pad doesn't make it any more difficult, and complaining about it means you're either a child, or you have bad stops and you're cheating. Literally what Kevin said in the clip I provided, that if you had watched, this reply wouldn't have made sense to make. So please, watch the clip before making any other comments, because Kevin and a lot of other people at the WCA have spent a good amount of time making sure this was the best decision.

And again, for BLD, just reread, or read it for the first time, because that's not a good excuse. Yes, we are used to 2-pad, of course you can't be perfect with 4-pad after 3 seconds, literally what Kevin said, but long term, it becomes negligible.

It's blatantly obvious you didn't watch the clip I provided, because Kevin went over everything you're complaining about, and so did I. So you definitely didn't watch the clip, and most likely didn't even read what I wrote. So if you want to have an actual discussion about this, then read what I wrote, and watch the clip. Or you can keep being ignorant, and complaining about non-issues.


4-pad is literally not. I have only used it for the past few days, and I'm already nearly 100% with my starts/stops. I haven't really lost any significant amount of time I wouldn't also lose between good and bad days.


Like I said above, sliding makes up a minority of the decision for implementing 4-pad. The main reason, is because of the little kids who cheat their stops.


2-pad gives way to extremely easy cheating, because all of these little kids averaging 2, 3, 4 seconds on 2x2, stop with their wrists, or still holding the puzzle. Kevin talks about this in the clip, and the kids push back on being told not to cheat. So yes, 4-pad is perfectly reasonable, and complaining about it just means you haven't done any 4-pad solves, or you are cheating your starts/stops, then at that point, it makes no sense to argue against it.

 

[AJT17]

I get you, when I started anyway I used 4-pad but for like WR I think 2 pad might be essential or smth, just an opinion

It's literally been tested by the WCA, Kevin talked with many top 2x2 solvers, and it has been verified that WR single in sprint events is still possible on 4-pad.

The only thing it does is make it so slower cubers can't fluke a WR, which let's be honest, isn't really that important anyway. Any of the top 2x2 solvers are still capable of getting WR on 4-pad, and it's not really any harder, since it all relies on getting a 4-mover officially anyway.

that makes a lot of sense, I might just be over-dramatic because if people aren't having a problem with it, there might be something wrong with my solves. maybe some lack of practice might be why, I don't cube all the time because of school but I do it mostly.

Yeah, a lot of the complaints of 4-pad are coming from people who don't practice, so with the last 4 months of the year, that is plenty of time for everyone to get acclimated to it.

and also the leverage to cheating is big, so I think they should implement 4-pad. Maybe for some events, however, could it be 2-pad?

There's no reason to have a divide between what is 4-pad and what is 2-pad. Sprint events are where 4-pad is arguably the most needed, since it will improve the legitimacy of all times and records. Then for longer events, it doesn't really impact the time as proportionally as sprint events, so it's not really beneficial to choose 2-pad there. It just makes sense to fully convert to 4-pad, and make all times and records almost fully legitimate without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[Swagrid]

They have not made a FINAL decision yet. I have made a petiton SIGN IT NOW! #SAVETWOPAD https://www.change.org/p/save-2-pad/dashboard/home

So true bestie #savesliding

 

[-Cube Kid-]

This isn't even true though. Kevin Hays streamed last night, and talked a bit about 4-pad throughout. He had some really insightful things to say, but the majority of the points come from around 17-25 minutes into the stream. I do really recommend at least watching this 8 minute section, since it's gonna be the basis of a lot of my talking points here.

Now to actually talk about your point a bit more, no, sprint events aren't cooked. Like Kevin mentioned, if you're complaining about 4-pad making you slower in sprint events, and you're not world class, then you're definitely cheating with starts, or more likely stops, like he showed. And I can personally verify his claim about people stopping the timer early, whether intentional or not. Even with sprint events, unless you're actively cheating your starts/stops, you won't be losing almost any time. Kevin has talked with top level 2x2 solvers, and they've verified that it is still possible to beat all of the current records on 4-pad, but it's less likely to be you or me, which, lets be honest, should never be the case anyway. WR single is still totally possible for any of the world class solvers, who have clean starts/stops, so sprint events aren't cooked.

And this isn't even an issue with BLD events either. The thumb pads aren't small or difficult to tell apart, it's just building up different muscle memory for the stops. It's not any more difficult, and won't be costing time. For world class solvers, they're gonna get used to 4-pad stops very quickly, like the rest of the events, so they won't be losing time from searching for the thumb pads. And for slow solvers, it's still not gonna be an issue because it's literally a skill issue if you can't stop the timer quickly, and it's still fully possible for slower solvers to have trouble stopping 2-pad quickly, but that's not talked about. The timer is still in the same place, and unless you're moving around a lot with the blindfold on, the timer isn't gonna move, and you'll be able to find it easily.

There is literally no downside to 4-pad, because with clean 2-pad starts, you won't even be losing more than 0.1 at worst. The only people I've ever heard that are mad at this change are little kids who aren't even fast, who also likely have poor stops, which is especially noticeable in sprint events, so they are losing more time because they have to stop cheating. This is very contrasted to what the top solvers' opinions are, which is that 4-pad is a great change for the integrity of results, especially immediately, since we will no longer have to check for sliding and wait potentially months to see if the result will stand. This is something I've heard my local delegates say, and I definitely agree, only little kids who cheat think this is an issue. We already have high ranking cheated results from Yiheng, his 0.87 2x2 AsR ao5 is cheated, but the WCA hasn't done anything about it. With 4-pad, we won't have to worry about records being cheated and being allowed to stand.

I have never used 4-pad, but I was basing this off of what I had heard. Thank you!

 

[someone.]

It's literally been tested by the WCA, Kevin talked with many top 2x2 solvers, and it has been verified that WR single in sprint events is still possible on 4-pad.

The only thing it does is make it so slower cubers can't fluke a WR, which let's be honest, isn't really that important anyway. Any of the top 2x2 solvers are still capable of getting WR on 4-pad, and it's not really any harder, since it all relies on getting a 4-mover officially anyway.


Yeah, a lot of the complaints of 4-pad are coming from people who don't practice, so with the last 4 months of the year, that is plenty of time for everyone to get acclimated to it.


There's no reason to have a divide between what is 4-pad and what is 2-pad. Sprint events are where 4-pad is arguably the most needed, since it will improve the legitimacy of all times and records. Then for longer events, it doesn't really impact the time as proportionally as sprint events, so it's not really beneficial to choose 2-pad there. It just makes sense to fully convert to 4-pad, and make all times and records almost fully legitimate without a shadow of a doubt.

Did you even watch any of the clip I gave?

Because Kevin literally says the bigger issue isn't from Yiheng, but from all the slower solvers, and their stops specifically. There are a ton of little kids who stop the timer with their wrists, or the side of their hands. If you think it's purely because of Yiheng, then you're delusional and not paying attention to the facts. Yes, in some part, it is because of Yiheng, but the majority of it truly comes from the larger group of people with bad stops.

4-pad doesn't make it any more difficult, and complaining about it means you're either a child, or you have bad stops and you're cheating. Literally what Kevin said in the clip I provided, that if you had watched, this reply wouldn't have made sense to make. So please, watch the clip before making any other comments, because Kevin and a lot of other people at the WCA have spent a good amount of time making sure this was the best decision.

And again, for BLD, just reread, or read it for the first time, because that's not a good excuse. Yes, we are used to 2-pad, of course you can't be perfect with 4-pad after 3 seconds, literally what Kevin said, but long term, it becomes negligible.

It's blatantly obvious you didn't watch the clip I provided, because Kevin went over everything you're complaining about, and so did I. So you definitely didn't watch the clip, and most likely didn't even read what I wrote. So if you want to have an actual discussion about this, then read what I wrote, and watch the clip. Or you can keep being ignorant, and complaining about non-issues.


4-pad is literally not. I have only used it for the past few days, and I'm already nearly 100% with my starts/stops. I haven't really lost any significant amount of time I wouldn't also lose between good and bad days.


Like I said above, sliding makes up a minority of the decision for implementing 4-pad. The main reason, is because of the little kids who cheat their stops.


2-pad gives way to extremely easy cheating, because all of these little kids averaging 2, 3, 4 seconds on 2x2, stop with their wrists, or still holding the puzzle. Kevin talks about this in the clip, and the kids push back on being told not to cheat. So yes, 4-pad is perfectly reasonable, and complaining about it just means you haven't done any 4-pad solves, or you are cheating your starts/stops, then at that point, it makes no sense to argue against it.

Ok ok ok, that was my fault, I didt watch the clip, but the point of petitions are only for people WHO AGREE now its about a 25/25/25/25 here, Some people are like 'The WCA is making people hate cubing', Some say,'This is the best desision ever!' Some also say, 'Meh, its ok' And some people just dont know which side they are on.

 

[someone.]

Ok ok ok, that was my fault, I didt watch the clip, but the point of petitions are only for people WHO AGREE now its about a 25/25/25/25 here, Some people are like 'The WCA is making people hate cubing', Some say,'This is the best desision ever!' Some also say, 'Meh, its ok' And some people just dont know which side they are on.

And plus I'm sub 9
with 2 pad BUT SUB 11 ON 4 pad!

 

[iguana]

And plus I'm sub 8
with 2 pad BUT SUB 11 ON 4 pad!

Not trying to be rude but this should not be the case. Like Kevin said in the video, you should be sub-8.2 on 4-pad at WORST. You just need to work on your starts and stops.

 

[iguana]

Also, sub 11 could still be sub 8. I average about 13 seconds - I could say I average sub-14 4 pad and sub-20 2 pad, and it would be true.

 

[someone.]

Ok so I just realised something MINDBLOWING! Should I rename the petition to 'Make the WCA and Speedstacks make a 4-2 pad mode, with 4 pad start and 2 pad finish, Now sliding is gone, and not getting used to stuff is gone.

 

[iguana]

Ok so I just realised something MINDBLOWING! Should I rename the petition to 'Make the WCA and Speedstacks make a 4-2 pad mode, with 4 pad start and 2 pad finish, Now sliding is gone, and not getting used to stuff is gone.

Watch Kevin's video! 2-pad stop still allows for early stops!!!