Website Rule Clarification

[Silky]

So recently the was a post along the lines of "cubing under the influence", which I saw was promptly removed. I'm not sure if this was by request of the poster or something that was removed directly by moderators. This post is assuming the later.

Regardless, I looked through the forum rules to see where explicitly there would be a violation warranting a post removal regarding such content. The relevant rules I found are as listed:

(1) b. Language and Content Expectations - "Speedsolving.com is a family-friendly site. It is very important to always keep in mind that there are young children on this site...Additionally, do not post content that is excessively vulgar, profane, graphic, or violent in nature. If you see such offensive content, report it."

(2) Infractions: Inappropriate content:
Inappropriate content, mild – 1 point, 5 days
Inappropriate content, major – 3 points, 14 days
Explicit content or images – Permanent ban, subject to administrator’s discretion

I find there are 3 relevant definitions that require clarification, that being "family-friendly-ness", "inapprooriate content", and "explicit content". I find all of these term to be incredibly vague, subjective, and ill defined. In regards to "family-friendly-ness - What is appropriate within one family isn't necessarily appropriate in another and obvious varies from one person to another. A simple example is that some families find it acceptable to talk about politics or religion at the dinner table.. others not so much. There are many religous cubers on this site that make referrence to said religion within their signatures.. is this appropriate? Obviously, I make a political referrence within my own signature - one which many people could consider to be vulgar or perhaps even violent. Am I in violation of the rules? My intentions are only to promote for the dignity and humanity of all people but that doesn't mean that it is interpreted as such.

Okay, back to why I'm making the post in the first place. Personally I found that the removed thread, "Cubing under the influence", actually has quite a bit of merit. How different medications affect cubers and their ability to cube is genuinely interesting. As someone who is considered disabled and takes medication to help manage my disability, is it okay for me to talk about how my medications affect me and my cubing experiences? Said post made referrence to Bubbly and MJ (to be as inexplicit as possible) in the context of research purposes*. I understand that condoning or encoutaging "illegal" behavior would be a clear violation of the rules but it didn't seem to me that this was to primary intention of the post. Obviously, regarding MJ, the legality of this varies widely both within and between different countries, so even that would be up to interpretation.

*I do want to make a distinction here - at first glance it may seem to be a false equalivance comparing recreational and medicinal/prescription drugs however its important to note that there are still medicinal/prescription drugs which can affect mood, concentration, focus, etc similar to Bubbly/MJ.

Sorry if my thoughts are a bit disorganized - I just feel there are a lot of domensions to this topic
Mainly for @pjk / other mods but I'm also interested in the community's thoughts what what we should be considering "innapropriate" topics/content.

 

[stoic]

That was a long and quite thoughtful post - thank you - but I personally don’t think further definitions are helpful/necessary.

I’m reminded of the famous quote in the Supreme Court trial about obscenity:

“I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it[…]”

I didn’t see the removed thread and I agree there may be merit in discussing how legal medication affects cubing but it needs to stay within the rules. You might consider starting that thread?

 

[UKCubeFan]

I saw the thread started by Bingus Ringus McDingus "Cubing under the influence" and also saw that it disappeared pretty quickly.
Laws usually like to keep things vague with definitions as referenced above.
Alcohol is illegal in some countries, where as drugs are legal in others.
As far as medication goes, if it says don't drive a car after taking this on the medication box, you probably shouldn't twist a cube either having taken it.
I'm sure you could talk about how LEGAL medication affects your cubing (if it does) without getting in trouble for it.

 

[eeeeeeeee]

I saw the thread started by Bingus Ringus McDingus "Cubing under the influence" and also saw that it disappeared pretty quickly.
Laws usually like to keep things vague with definitions as referenced above.
Alcohol is illegal in some countries, where as drugs are legal in others.
As far as medication goes, if it says don't drive a car after taking this on the medication box, you probably shouldn't twist a cube either having taken it.
I'm sure you could talk about how LEGAL medication affects your cubing (if it does) without getting in trouble for it.

people who have past experience in topics are the best people to talk about them

 

[JDCubing1]

So recently the was a post along the lines of "cubing under the influence", which I saw was promptly removed. I'm not sure if this was by request of the poster or something that was removed directly by moderators. This post is assuming the later.

Regardless, I looked through the forum rules to see where explicitly there would be a violation warranting a post removal regarding such content. The relevant rules I found are as listed:

(1) b. Language and Content Expectations - "Speedsolving.com is a family-friendly site. It is very important to always keep in mind that there are young children on this site...Additionally, do not post content that is excessively vulgar, profane, graphic, or violent in nature. If you see such offensive content, report it."

(2) Infractions: Inappropriate content:
Inappropriate content, mild – 1 point, 5 days
Inappropriate content, major – 3 points, 14 days
Explicit content or images – Permanent ban, subject to administrator’s discretion

I find there are 3 relevant definitions that require clarification, that being "family-friendly-ness", "inapprooriate content", and "explicit content". I find all of these term to be incredibly vague, subjective, and ill defined. In regards to "family-friendly-ness - What is appropriate within one family isn't necessarily appropriate in another and obvious varies from one person to another. A simple example is that some families find it acceptable to talk about politics or religion at the dinner table.. others not so much. There are many religous cubers on this site that make referrence to said religion within their signatures.. is this appropriate? Obviously, I make a political referrence within my own signature - one which many people could consider to be vulgar or perhaps even violent. Am I in violation of the rules? My intentions are only to promote for the dignity and humanity of all people but that doesn't mean that it is interpreted as such.

Okay, back to why I'm making the post in the first place. Personally I found that the removed thread, "Cubing under the influence", actually has quite a bit of merit. How different medications affect cubers and their ability to cube is genuinely interesting. As someone who is considered disabled and takes medication to help manage my disability, is it okay for me to talk about how my medications affect me and my cubing experiences? Said post made referrence to Bubbly and MJ (to be as inexplicit as possible) in the context of research purposes*. I understand that condoning or encoutaging "illegal" behavior would be a clear violation of the rules but it didn't seem to me that this was to primary intention of the post. Obviously, regarding MJ, the legality of this varies widely both within and between different countries, so even that would be up to interpretation.

*I do want to make a distinction here - at first glance it may seem to be a false equalivance comparing recreational and medicinal/prescription drugs however its important to note that there are still medicinal/prescription drugs which can affect mood, concentration, focus, etc similar to Bubbly/MJ.

Sorry if my thoughts are a bit disorganized - I just feel there are a lot of domensions to this topic
Mainly for @pjk / other mods but I'm also interested in the community's thoughts what what we should be considering "innapropriate" topics/content.

hopefully no one tries to do explicit stuff on here

 

[qwr]

I'm waiting for the hidden 18+ section of the site free of little kids running around and screaming. Cubing After Midnight.

 

[ProStar]

I imagine many of the rules and definitions are left intentionally vague so as to allow for administrator discretion

 

[pTr]

Also vague rules are easier to write and enforce.

 

[Silky]

I didn’t see the removed thread and I agree there may be merit in discussing how legal medication affects cubing but it needs to stay within the rules. You might consider starting that thread?

Well, that the whole point of the thread. If the rules are unclear then how do I know if I am staying within them? I don't think it would be in good taste to post a thread talking about how substances affect cubing when I just watched a thread removed for, I assume, that very reason.

I'm sure you could talk about how LEGAL medication affects your cubing (if it does) without getting in trouble for it

Well that's why I brought up the legality issue. By who's metric are we determining what is or is not considered a legal med (Like which state/country). Technically all prescription medications are illegal unless prescribed by a doctor. Unless I were to send a copy of my prescription, there really is no way to tell whether or not what I am consuming is legal.

I'm waiting for the hidden 18+ section of the site free of little kids running around and screaming. Cubing After Midnight.

I nominate the Older Cuber Discussion Thread for this. It's in the name after all.

I imagine many of the rules and definitions are left intentionally vague so as to allow for administrator discretion

This is exactly correct. However, I do believe that we should still be able to ask why a post is removed. To quote the rules once more, "If you receive an infraction and believe it was unfair or unwarranted, you should discuss the matter with the moderator who issued the infraction". I accidentally skipped over this which was a mistake. This would actually be the rule I am citing and is why I'm seeking clarification. I believe that the removal of that post was unwarranted on the grounds that there are no explicit rules violated that would warrant it's removal in the first place. It rules are too vague than is it fair to punish someone that doesn't understand that they are breaking a rule? No idea if the poster receive warnings/infractions/whatever but I'd argue post removal is a form of punishment - censorship is a form of punishment, I guess..right?

Do mods have to cite any rules broken when issuing a punishment? If not, that seems pretty unfair. Why even have rules if it doesn't matter whether or not you break them to receive a punishment. It doesn't seem like there is any appeal process outside of messaging the mod directly.. and even if you did message them saying that you think its unwarranted, it doesn't seem like they would have to prove you did anything wrong. What's the incentive for them to change their mind/reverse the punishment?

 

[pTr]

wow, why is this guy preaching?? wow.

 

[m.ipg21]

I saw the post... skimmed the post, and I did wonder... is this appropriate?

 

[stoic]

I’m not going to reply to all the points above directly, and we obviously disagree (which is ok), but as a general observation about SS:

I’ve noticed an uptick recently in posters railing against the mods and thinking that they can enact rule changes, push for their mates to become mods, get specific posters banned etc. as a result of loud and/or coordinated action.

This isn’t a democracy. You’re visiting someone’s house and so you have to abide by their rules. The mods have delegated powers inside the house, and their judgment is trusted by the owner; they have a track record and some reasonable leeway. That’s it. Demanding appeals processes or whatever judicial oversight you want to call for isn’t appropriate, any more than it would be if your neighbour asked you to leave their party and you didn’t like it.

 

[Silky]

I’m not going to reply to all the points above directly, and we obviously disagree (which is ok), but as a general observation about SS:

I’ve noticed an uptick recently in posters railing against the mods and thinking that they can enact rule changes, push for their mates to become mods, get specific posters banned etc. as a result of loud and/or coordinated action.

This isn’t a democracy. You’re visiting someone’s house and so you have to abide by their rules. The mods have delegated powers inside the house, and their judgment is trusted by the owner; they have a track record and some reasonable leeway. That’s it. Demanding appeals processes or whatever judicial oversight you want to call for isn’t appropriate, any more than it would be if your neighbour asked you to leave their party and you didn’t like it.

I think, perhaps, you are misunderstanding why I'm bringing up the points that I am. I agree that this isn't a democracy - I'm not here to flame the mods nor do I believe that the mods are somehow "taking away my rights" or that they're persecuting me or anything silly like that.

When you sign up for any website you essential sign a contract stating that "I agree to these terms and conditions (the rules) and, as a result, as long as I abide by these terms and conditions I will have the right to use this website". I am not here to argue over the rules.. I'm just trying to understand them.

The reason I cite the rule, "If you receive an infraction and believe it was unfair or unwarranted, you should discuss the matter with the moderator who issued the infraction", is because I believe the implication of this rule is that users have to right to challenge a decision made by the mods. Honestly, I wouldn't even say that I'm challenging the decision - it's not like I'm asking them to reinstate the post.

I'm trying to have the rules clarified explicitly so that I don't break them. I've arrived at the party and I'm asking whether or not saying x,y,z is considered breaking the rules because I don't want to be thrown out of the party. I like the party! I want to stay at the party!

I don't believe that discussing the rules or asking for clarification is inappropriate. If the mods say that the discussion of drugs/alcohol is considered to be inappropriate content then that's fine, I have absolutely no problem with that.

I'm a pretty principled person and I understand that my tone can come off a bit preachy, however, that isn't my intention. I respect the rules which I why I'm trying to better understand them.

Phew! Writing this was way more taxing that I though it'd be. I think I'm going to relax in by engaging in some family-friendly behaviors.

 

[ProStar]

Well, that the whole point of the thread. If the rules are unclear then how do I know if I am staying within them? I don't think it would be in good taste to post a thread talking about how substances affect cubing when I just watched a thread removed for, I assume, that very reason.



Well that's why I brought up the legality issue. By who's metric are we determining what is or is not considered a legal med (Like which state/country). Technically all prescription medications are illegal unless prescribed by a doctor. Unless I were to send a copy of my prescription, there really is no way to tell whether or not what I am consuming is legal.



I nominate the Older Cuber Discussion Thread for this. It's in the name after all.



This is exactly correct. However, I do believe that we should still be able to ask why a post is removed. To quote the rules once more, "If you receive an infraction and believe it was unfair or unwarranted, you should discuss the matter with the moderator who issued the infraction". I accidentally skipped over this which was a mistake. This would actually be the rule I am citing and is why I'm seeking clarification. I believe that the removal of that post was unwarranted on the grounds that there are no explicit rules violated that would warrant it's removal in the first place. It rules are too vague than is it fair to punish someone that doesn't understand that they are breaking a rule? No idea if the poster receive warnings/infractions/whatever but I'd argue post removal is a form of punishment - censorship is a form of punishment, I guess..right?

Do mods have to cite any rules broken when issuing a punishment? If not, that seems pretty unfair. Why even have rules if it doesn't matter whether or not you break them to receive a punishment. It doesn't seem like there is any appeal process outside of messaging the mod directly.. and even if you did message them saying that you think its unwarranted, it doesn't seem like they would have to prove you did anything wrong. What's the incentive for them to change their mind/reverse the punishment?

Based on the wording of the rule, I don’t see why an administrator would publish the reason for removing the post. "If you receive an infraction and believe it was unfair or unwarranted, you should discuss the matter with the moderator who issued the infraction.” None of us are the poster, why would we be given info about the matter?

If what you’re looking for is clarification on rules rather than info about a specific post, I recommend DMing pjk or a moderator directly. I’ve done so on occasion and always received a helpful response.

 

[cranberryjuice]

I'm sure you could talk about how LEGAL medication affects your cubing (if it does) without getting in trouble for it.

For example, I have ADHD, and take a prescription focus medication. Without it, it's much harder for me to drive, even borderline dangerous, because I get distracted. It helps a lot with cubing too, because I can focus better on the cube when I'm on my meds.

 

[pTr]

Yeah, very similar for me.

I take Vyvanse for ADHD and after I take that my averages, drop about 2-4 seconds.

But, I also take Trazodone Hydrochorid, and that makes my average be like 35seconds...

 

[cranberryjuice]

If I forget to take my meds and try to cube, sometimes I'll forget what I'm doing, get distracted, walk off with the timer still running, and come back later to see that it has a ridiculous time on it. Last time it got up to five hours and thirty eight minutes before I checked my phone again.

 

[pjk]

The purpose of this community is to encourage all of us to share and learn from each other about speedcubing, a sport we all love. Be kind, be friendly, be useful, and be helpful to other members. That is what it is all about.

Since a large amount of the community are young kids, promoting drug use isn't allowed. Under the influence when cubing when you're older is fine, but not when you're younger and developing your mind/body.