Should solve where cubes unintentionally pop during blind events be DNFed?

[Cuber Score]

Having doubts as to if I get it
So if the pop happenes out of the judges sight, it is automatically considered unintentional?

No, the opposite.

 

[turtwig]

For example, even with a good 4x4 it's easy for me to almost pop cubes. So, imagine what it might be like on an even bigger cube.

What bigger cube? The only bigger cube for blind is 5x5. And as an odd cube the hardware for that is often more robust than for 4x4.

Also, there are cases where the cube just falls apart in your hand

I feel like something has to be seriously wrong with your cubes if this happens. I've literally never heard of something like this before.

With that in mind, wouldn't it be kind of ridiculous?

I don't think it's that ridiculous to DNF a solve that was not completed, even if due to external factors. You bring your own equipment to the competition: if it malfunctions, I don't see why we have to accommodate you. That's always been the standard as far as I know.

 

[Thom S.]

You bring your own equipment to the competition: if it malfunctions, I don't see why we have to accommodate you. That's always been the standard as far as I know.

To be fair, Worlds 1982, 2003 and 2005, I think had Rubiks bring cubes for certain events.

 

[An Animating Cuber]

This was hard to make a decision about, a disassembled cube obviously not solved, but if the cube pop's in blindfold it's almost impossible to get a success even though the pop was not their fault, and it's hard to justify them getting an extra possibly delaying the competition, I decided that you should get an extra because having a cube pop is usually not the competitors fault.

 

[Cuber987]

This was hard to make a decision about, a disassembled cube obviously not solved, but if the cube pop's in blindfold it's almost impossible to get a success even though the pop was not their fault, and it's hard to justify them getting an extra possibly delaying the competition, I decided that you should get an extra because having a cube pop is usually not the competitors fault.

But it is their fault for turning too fast

 

[An Animating Cuber]

Not every pop on a cube is caused by rough turning and sometimes you need to turn fast so you can finish the solve before you forget memorisation.

 

[EthanMCuber]

When you leave it up to witnesses to decide what was going on inside your brain at a certain moment, there is a very big chance they are wrong or are biased. I believe that pops on BLD, unless put back together the correct way, should be DNFed because of this.

 

[ProStar]

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but isn't a pop only a DNF if it causes the competitor to fail to solve the puzzle? I've seen videos of people searching for a popped piece in the middle of their execution and then repairing the puzzle and continuing on.

Unless you somehow pop the puzzle during memoization, in which case I strongly recommend making sure your core isn't made out of chocolate fondue.

 

[An Animating Cuber]

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but isn't a pop only a DNF if it causes the competitor to fail to solve the puzzle? I've seen videos of people searching for a popped piece in the middle of their execution and then repairing the puzzle and continuing on.

Unless you somehow pop the puzzle during memoization, in which case I strongly recommend making sure your core isn't made out of chocolate fondue.

You can technically pop a puzzle and successfully repair it and continue the solve but the problem is when your blindfolded the difficulty of repairing increases tenfold, it's hard to find the piece and you may insert it in the wrong orientation causing the cube to be impossible to solve.

 

[ProStar]

You can technically pop a puzzle and successfully repair it and continue the solve but the problem is when your blindfolded the difficulty of repairing increases tenfold, it's hard to find the piece and you may insert it in the wrong orientation causing the cube to be impossible to solve.

Yeah, hence why not popping is strongly recommended.

It's completely impossible to practically give someone who pops in a BLD attempt an extra without providing a super easy avenue for cheating. It's not worth the effort and will likely result in worsening the event, not bettering it. Popping is such a rare thing in BLD (even on 5x5 and 4x4; get a decent cube and tighten in a bit) that it's not worth opening up that can of worms.

 

[An Animating Cuber]

Yeah, hence why not popping is strongly recommended.

It's completely impossible to practically give someone who pops in a BLD attempt an extra without providing a super easy avenue for cheating. It's not worth the effort and will likely result in worsening the event, not bettering it. Popping is such a rare thing in BLD (even on 5x5 and 4x4; get a decent cube and tighten in a bit) that it's not worth opening up that can of worms.

Yeah I thought of that but I feel like it might be hard to cheat either you take apart the cube which would make it obvious your cheating or you make the cube so lose it almost impossible to not pop it which would make every solve pop which is not that beneficial, I am very tentative about all possible solutions, I just prefer giving an extra by a tiny amount.

 

[Running for cube]

But imagine you're using a big cube that's susceptible to popping. For example, even with a good 4x4 it's easy for me to almost pop cubes. So, imagine what it might be like on an even bigger cube. Also, there are cases where the cube just falls apart in your hand (it's happened to me a couple times), or when a side falls off because of something having to do with the core. With that in mind, wouldn't it be kind of ridiculous? I'm not saying all of the rules are bad, but some could be improved, as with much of the WCA policies.

Imagine someone “accidentally” popping so they stop the solve intentionally early bc they are having a bad one and get more time in their cumulative time limit?

 

[Tabe]

But imagine you're using a big cube that's susceptible to popping. For example, even with a good 4x4 it's easy for me to almost pop cubes. So, imagine what it might be like on an even bigger cube. Also, there are cases where the cube just falls apart in your hand (it's happened to me a couple times), or when a side falls off because of something having to do with the core. With that in mind, wouldn't it be kind of ridiculous? I'm not saying all of the rules are bad, but some could be improved, as with much of the WCA policies.

This is silly. If your cube pops or falls apart, it's your fault. Turn more accurately, fix your tensions, and make sure your core is in decent condition.

 

[joshsailscga]

But imagine you're using a big cube that's susceptible to popping. For example, even with a good 4x4 it's easy for me to almost pop cubes. So, imagine what it might be like on an even bigger cube. Also, there are cases where the cube just falls apart in your hand (it's happened to me a couple times), or when a side falls off because of something having to do with the core. With that in mind, wouldn't it be kind of ridiculous? I'm not saying all of the rules are bad, but some could be improved, as with much of the WCA policies.

I actually glanced up at the post date to make sure I wasn't reading a necro'd post from 2011. Do you have access to cubes made at any point in the last 5 years?

But serious answer, as many people have pointed out there is no good way to determine intent. Rules and laws can only govern things that do happen, not what somebody meant to do. Since we can't determine intent in popping cubes, we have to choose either always giving an extra solve or always not giving an extra solve. For probably many reasons, it just doesn't make sense to always give an extra solve for a pop. Which is again an honestly very rare thing to see happen.

 

[Mike Hughey]

It is certainly not impossible to repair a pop in a BLD solve and still have a successful solve. I have done it several times in solves at home (back a number of years ago, when cubes were such that pops were more common), and I have heard stories from several other BLD solvers of doing similar. (And I have also had solves where I have put the piece back in backwards, unfortunately.) It is totally reasonable for the rules for popped pieces to be the same for BLD as for regular solving. And the danger of abuse of intentional pops makes the alternative unacceptable. In my opinion, the rules are exactly as they should be on this issue.

 

[Cuber Score]

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but isn't a pop only a DNF if it causes the competitor to fail to solve the puzzle? I've seen videos of people searching for a popped piece in the middle of their execution and then repairing the puzzle and continuing on.

Unless you somehow pop the puzzle during memoization, in which case I strongly recommend making sure your core isn't made out of chocolate fondue.

Yeah, I'm referring to the cases where multiple pieces pop, where it's much harder to put back together.

anyway, I think it should depend on the situation and what the judge sees. If the judge can tell that the competitor did not unintentionally pop it, and if a lot of pieces fell off, it shouldn't count. However, if the judge can't tell, then he/she can declare it a DNF if the competitor is unable to properly put back the cube together.

 

[Cuber Score]

It is certainly not impossible to repair a pop in a BLD solve and still have a successful solve. I have done it several times in solves at home (back a number of years ago, when cubes were such that pops were more common), and I have heard stories from several other BLD solvers of doing similar. (And I have also had solves where I have put the piece back in backwards, unfortunately.) It is totally reasonable for the rules for popped pieces to be the same for BLD as for regular solving. And the danger of abuse of intentional pops makes the alternative unacceptable. In my opinion, the rules are exactly as they should be on this issue.

I suppose that's fair.

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

Extra reason to DNF pops: the urge to repair the pop to not get DNF results in very funny videos like this one: