Older cubers discussions

[mark49152]

@newtonbase - UKC has been announced and there are no qualifying criteria for 4BLD or 5BLD. Goals for you...?

 

[newtonbase]

@newtonbase - UKC has been announced and there are no qualifying criteria for 4BLD or 5BLD. Goals for you...?

That's what I'd heard. Definitely going to try but really struggling to practice. My lunch breaks are the best time but I've moved offices and can't find anywhere quiet. Might get a skin coloured mask with eyes painted on it.

 

[Old Tom]

Re my Blind Quest: I've gotten confused and need help. I'm doing OP sighted fine now, and getting more and more familiar with sticker locations, setups, etc. Also doing short spurts of memo and blind solving, and am comfortable with that. But am completely thrown off with how to do the trace when there is a new cycle. (I can do this sighted fine.) A bit hard to explain my problem, but: Let's say I'm a couple of moves into memo and trace of edges. I discover the buffer position now has the buffer piece (the BM piece). So, I start a new cycle, throw it to an unsolved edge location, no problem as long as I know where the unsolved locations are (not the problem here).

Except, the piece that was there now gets sent to buffer, gets moved along, but eventually (usually soon) a piece gets sent to where the BM piece now resides; I'm either done or I need to start another cycle. If I'm done, no problem, I should know I'm done. But if not done, then there is no problem when doing it sighted, but during the memo/trace inspection stage of an actual blind solve, I'm looking at the piece that was originally there, not the BM piece. So, how do I deal with this? Do I have to remember how I handled each new cycle (often more than one)? What does this do to memo and trace? Or what?

Hope that made sense! Hope there is a simple answer!

 

[Mike Hughey]

@Old Tom , when you solve your first cycle, that puts the buffer piece where it will belong at the end. So then, when you start a second cycle, you can put the buffer piece back where it belongs by including the first piece for the second cycle at the end of the cycle as well as the beginning. You have to shoot to it twice. So the simple rule is, for the first cycle, you don't repeat the first piece you shoot to for that cycle, but for all other cycles you shoot to the first piece, run through the cycle, and then shoot to that first piece for that particular cycle again. Once you finish all cycles that way, you're done.

I hope that answers your question and makes sense - if not, let us know and maybe someone else can do better.

 

[Old Tom]

@Old Tom , when you solve your first cycle, that puts the buffer piece where it will belong at the end. So then, when you start a second cycle, you can put the buffer piece back where it belongs by including the first piece for the second cycle at the end of the cycle as well as the beginning. You have to shoot to it twice. So the simple rule is, for the first cycle, you don't repeat the first piece you shoot to for that cycle, but for all other cycles you shoot to the first piece, run through the cycle, and then shoot to that first piece for that particular cycle again. Once you finish all cycles that way, you're done.

I hope that answers your question and makes sense - if not, let us know and maybe someone else can do better.

Mike, I'm not sure if I understand this. You seem to be describing the solve after the memo is done. My problem, at least the problem I am initially facing, is how to do the memo and trace before the solve, where I'm going to be looking at a piece that is "no longer there" because it was replaced by the BM piece as the result of a new cycle.

 

[mark49152]

@Old Tom - you can think of the first swap to break into a new cycle as a kind of preparatory move.

When you start your memo, you look at your buffer position, trace the piece that resides there, and keep tracing until you hit your buffer piece. Hopefully you've got that part of it down.

So, if there are still unsolved pieces, what do you do? How do you solve those when your buffer position now contains your buffer piece?

You do that one preparatory swap. Pick one unsolved piece and swap it into your buffer position. Now, go back to the beginning. After this move, the process is exactly the same as when you started out. Start with the piece you just moved into buffer position, and trace around the cube. How do you know when the cycle is complete? Again it's the same - it's finished when you hit your buffer piece. Take care though, because you just moved your buffer piece into the position you started the cycle at.

Hope that helps.

 

[Mike Hughey]

Okay, the thing I was trying to describe was actually the memo. The point is that you add that second cycle starting piece to the memo twice - once at the beginning and once at the end. Then you just execute without having to think about it at all - you'll hit that piece twice, but you don't really think about it because all you do is execute in the order you memorized.

So for instance, imagine you have a first cycle that, starting at your buffer piece, looks like this:
NQ BV CO A (just putting the letters in pairs because I like to memorize that way, for reasons we've discussed here before)

Now you need to start with a new piece for the second cycle. Say you pick P, and the pieces are PXF and then F goes back to P. So now your memorization is:
NQ BV CO AP XF P
Since there is a single piece, it means you have parity - solve that however you go about dealing with parity. But for the memorization, all you did was repeat the piece from the beginning of the second cycle at the end of the cycle, and everything takes care of itself.

You might get a situation where the second cycle ends at the same piece, but a different sticker. For me, P and J are on the same edge piece, so for the sample scramble I just set up to try this, I actually had:
NQ BV CO AP XF J
but since J and P are on the same piece, I essentially memorized the starting piece of my second cycle twice like I was supposed to, so that would be the memorization, with P and J pointing to different stickers on the same piece.

Then when you execute, you just execute your memorization exactly how it is, without worrying about whether you broke new cycles or not. On 3BLD, I often forget whether I even had extra cycles on my edges by the time I'm solving - it doesn't matter. I just need to remember the letters.

I hope that makes more sense?

 

[Old Tom]

@Old Tom - you can think of the first swap to break into a new cycle as a kind of preparatory move.

When you start your memo, you look at your buffer position, trace the piece that resides there, and keep tracing until you hit your buffer piece. Hopefully you've got that part of it down.

So, if there are still unsolved pieces, what do you do? How do you solve those when your buffer position now contains your buffer piece?

You do that one preparatory swap. Pick one unsolved piece and swap it into your buffer position. Now, go back to the beginning. After this move, the process is exactly the same as when you started out. Start with the piece you just moved into buffer position, and trace around the cube. How do you know when the cycle is complete? Again it's the same - it's finished when you hit your buffer piece. Take care though, because you just moved your buffer piece into the position you started the cycle at.

Hope that helps.

Hey Mark, yes, this is exactly what I do when I do it sighted. But my question is, how do I memo this during the inspection/trace/memo phase? How do I remember when I have hit the buffer piece a second time, since I don't see that piece there in that spot? Instead, I am looking at the original piece that was there. Is it as simple as "Just remember it, the buffer piece is there now." Maybe that's what you meant by "Take care now." I can see myself easily overlooking that because I am not actually looking at the buffer piece.

 

[Old Tom]

Okay, the thing I was trying to describe was actually the memo. The point is that you add that second cycle starting piece to the memo twice - once at the beginning and once at the end. Then you just execute without having to think about it at all - you'll hit that piece twice, but you don't really think about it because all you do is execute in the order you memorized.

So for instance, imagine you have a first cycle that, starting at your buffer piece, looks like this:
NQ BV CO A (just putting the letters in pairs because I like to memorize that way, for reasons we've discussed here before)

Now you need to start with a new piece for the second cycle. Say you pick P, and the pieces are PXF and then F goes back to P. So now your memorization is:
NQ BV CO AP XF P
Since there is a single piece, it means you have parity - solve that however you go about dealing with parity. But for the memorization, all you did was repeat the piece from the beginning of the second cycle at the end of the cycle, and everything takes care of itself.

You might get a situation where the second cycle ends at the same piece, but a different sticker. For me, P and J are on the same edge piece, so for the sample scramble I just set up to try this, I actually had:
NQ BV CO AP XF J
but since J and P are on the same piece, I essentially memorized the starting piece of my second cycle twice like I was supposed to, so that would be the memorization, with P and J pointing to different stickers on the same piece.

Then when you execute, you just execute your memorization exactly how it is, without worrying about whether you broke new cycles or not. On 3BLD, I often forget whether I even had extra cycles on my edges by the time I'm solving - it doesn't matter. I just need to remember the letters.

I hope that makes more sense?

I'm going to work on this, thanks! Almost there, maybe. I'm impressed by how many DNFs you guys seem to tolerate, and I'm sure I'm gonna build up a horde of those also.

 

[Mike Hughey]

I'm going to work on this, thanks! Almost there, maybe. I'm impressed by how many DNFs you guys seem to tolerate, and I'm sure I'm gonna build up a horde of those also.

Yes, please don't let the DNFs get you down. If you do lots of DNFs, it means you're probably improving quicker. I tend to be far too unhappy with DNFs, and as a result I don't get faster as quickly as some of the others do. DNFs mean you're pushing yourself, which tends to make you better more quickly than successful solves do.


@h2f , you've actually gotten faster than me at 5BLD - I'm jealous! My PB is 10:33.74 - you've beaten me by almost 2 seconds!

 

[mark49152]

But my question is, how do I memo this during the inspection/trace/memo phase? How do I remember when I have hit the buffer piece a second time, since I don't see that piece there in that spot? Instead, I am looking at the original piece that was there. Is it as simple as "Just remember it, the buffer piece is there now." Maybe that's what you meant by "Take care now." I can see myself easily overlooking that because I am not actually looking at the buffer piece.

Yes that's exactly what you do. You might overlook it occasionally at first, but you'll get it with practice. It helps to have a small number of "preferred" pieces to start cycles at.

 

[SpartanSailor]

That's what I'd heard. Definitely going to try but really struggling to practice. My lunch breaks are the best time but I've moved offices and can't find anywhere quiet. Might get a skin coloured mask with eyes painted on it.

Those are creepy looking... LOL

 

[SpartanSailor]

Non-BLD update:
I’ve had some decent practice lately. I feel like my newer/improved F2L algs are beginning to happen more fluidly and with less pause. I’m not sure what that means in competition times, but I was thrilled with a 17 and 18 in the weekly forum comp and an Ao5 of 20.24.

4x4: I think it’s going to be a LONG time before I beat my PB/PR from my recent comp with a 58.55 single. That was a freak result and I’m still a little shocked by it.... pretty awesome that it happened in comp. But my official ao5 is still 1:21–need to get that down. Fortunately, I’ve had a few sub-1:15 averages over the past week and two at 1:11 (my new PB). I still feel like sub-1:15 is doable but something sub 1:20 is going to happen in a comp pretty soon I hope. With a big 3-day comp in Pennsylvania next weekend, I’ll have a chance to see what I can do. I’m competing in 10 events though (first time for several) and really just trying to have fun. I don’t have any actual goals yet, but a sub-1:20 ao5 is definitely a doable and hopeful outcome.

5x5. This has continued to be a fun distraction from other things. I missed my PB single by .4 seconds in the weekly comp with a 2:41.83. Eventually, I thing I’d like to be sub-2, but I don’t see that happening for quite some time. I also got a PB ao5 last night with 2:55. My previous was 2:57 from a couple weeks ago and those are the only two times I’ve done sub-3. Seems like 3:05-10 is more like my global average.

6x6. Another fun one. I am beginning to enjoy the bigger cubes. Not much to say here about times... I don’t drill 6x6 very much—just takes too long to scramble and complete a solve. I just can’t manage more than 5 solves in a row before I need a break.... and at 6-7 min each, that’s the better part of an hour.

7x7. Nothing here. Still waiting on my new Yuxin 7x7M to arrive. Recieved shipping notification, so, I’ll be happy when that arrives. I’ve never really timed myself, but the fastest know time for me is around 19 minutes and that was a LONG time ago. LOL. I didn’t even know what I was doing back then, I am hopeful that I can improve that just based upon what I’ve learned working 5x5 and 6x6.

Sorry for the long post....

 

[SpartanSailor]

Hey Mark, yes, this is exactly what I do when I do it sighted. But my question is, how do I memo this during the inspection/trace/memo phase? How do I remember when I have hit the buffer piece a second time, since I don't see that piece there in that spot? Instead, I am looking at the original piece that was there. Is it as simple as "Just remember it, the buffer piece is there now." Maybe that's what you meant by "Take care now." I can see myself easily overlooking that because I am not actually looking at the buffer piece.

I still struggle with this sometimes... I’ll notice that my memo is taking forever and then notice that I’m redoing pieces....

I notice, now, that I’ve already solved that piece when i cycle back to it. I don’t imagine the buffer there, more that I remember solving the “blue-red” edge (or whichever it is). The harder part is remember which edges have NOT been solved so I can start a new cycle or know I’m done.

 

[Old Tom]

Non-BLD update:
I’ve had some decent practice lately. I feel like my newer/improved F2L algs are beginning to happen more fluidly and with less pause. I’m not sure what that means in competition times, but I was thrilled with a 17 and 18 in the weekly forum comp and an Ao5 of 20.24.

4x4: I think it’s going to be a LONG time before I beat my PB/PR from my recent comp with a 58.55 single. That was a freak result and I’m still a little shocked by it.... pretty awesome that it happened in comp. But my official ao5 is still 1:21–need to get that down. Fortunately, I’ve had a few sub-1:15 averages over the past week and two at 1:11 (my new PB). I still feel like sub-1:15 is doable but something sub 1:20 is going to happen in a comp pretty soon I hope. With a big 3-day comp in Pennsylvania next weekend, I’ll have a chance to see what I can do. I’m competing in 10 events though (first time for several) and really just trying to have fun. I don’t have any actual goals yet, but a sub-1:20 ao5 is definitely a doable and hopeful outcome.

5x5. This has continued to be a fun distraction from other things. I missed my PB single by .4 seconds in the weekly comp with a 2:41.83. Eventually, I thing I’d like to be sub-2, but I don’t see that happening for quite some time. I also got a PB ao5 last night with 2:55. My previous was 2:57 from a couple weeks ago and those are the only two times I’ve done sub-3. Seems like 3:05-10 is more like my global average.

6x6. Another fun one. I am beginning to enjoy the bigger cubes. Not much to say here about times... I don’t drill 6x6 very much—just takes too long to scramble and complete a solve. I just can’t manage more than 5 solves in a row before I need a break.... and at 6-7 min each, that’s the better part of an hour.

7x7. Nothing here. Still waiting on my new Yuxin 7x7M to arrive. Recieved shipping notification, so, I’ll be happy when that arrives. I’ve never really timed myself, but the fastest know time for me is around 19 minutes and that was a LONG time ago. LOL. I didn’t even know what I was doing back then, I am hopeful that I can improve that just based upon what I’ve learned working 5x5 and 6x6.

Sorry for the long post....

Ten events! Don't forget to lube your fingers.

 

[SpartanSailor]

Ten events! Don't forget to lube your fingers.

I know... spread out over three days though. I’ll be busy just keeping track of where I’m supposed to be.

 

[openseas]

Non-BLD update:

I've got elected as a candidate delegate of Texas. Non-stop cubing competition at North Texas area is about to start

 

[pglewis]

"Just remember it, the buffer piece is there now." Maybe that's what you meant by "Take care now." I can see myself easily overlooking that because I am not actually looking at the buffer piece.

This is the main reason I still track with fingers yet it's still far too common a cause for tracing errors for me. I get focused on the trace then forget where the last cycle break started. It gets easier though, and I wouldn't suggest using fingers if you're making good progress without them. At some point I'll need to drop that habit.

 

[SpartanSailor]

Non-BLD update:

I've got elected as a candidate delegate of Texas. Non-stop cubing competition at North Texas area is about to start

Fantastic!! Congrats!

 

[Old Tom]

This is the main reason I still track with fingers yet it's still far too common a cause for tracing errors for me. I get focused on the trace then forget where the last cycle break started. It gets easier though, and I wouldn't suggest using fingers if you're making good progress without them. At some point I'll need to drop that habit.

Happy to know that my confusion involved a real issue, not just a beginner's illusion. Thanks to everyone for the tips, I think I now know what to do to keep track of the cycle breaks. Just to be sure: once I've done all this and created (and reviewed) a complete memo string, is it correct that I can now forget all about the breaks and just execute the resulting setups, algs and un-setups as if no breaks were there (except for how they may or may not result in a parity correction between edges and corners)? Or are you still keeping track of what you are actually doing as you execute the string?