Older cubers discussions

[mark49152]

Good luck @SpartanSailor and everyone else competing this weekend! And good luck @newtonbase, I hope you get to compete!

 

[Old Tom]

Hopefully the F2L practice will payoff by the end of July when I have one in Fredericksburg (with @Old Tom ). But, as much as I hate seeing my times slowdown, I am hopeful it will be worth it in a few more weeks of practice.

Good luck! And in FBg you will be blazing fast compared to me.

 

[40yearstosolve]

Final day prior to my competition tomorrow in Maryland, USA. I haven’t had much chance in the past couple days to practice 3BLD. But, have been drilling edges a little and still feel that I’m in decent “shape” to get a sub-5. It’s absolutlely doable... just hope my nerves don’t supercede my knowledge.

As to my 3x3 or 4x4 and Skewb... forget about it. I haven’t touched my skewb in so long, I’ll have to dust it off. As to 4x4, I’ve been stuck around mid-1:20s for a long time. I’ve learned a couple special last two edge cases, but I don’t see that helping tremendously. Maybe a second or two if that particular case shows up (and I notice while under the pressure of the timer). I DO think my next 4x4 “breakthrough” will happen along with my 3x3 breakthrough. Which brings me to 3x3.

I have NOT had a good week of time leading up to tomorrow. MUCH slower this morning than I have been in several months. Perhaps I’m not fully warmed up, or something, but having added just a few F2L algs to my kit has had a serious impact on my times. I’m going to try to keep my ego in check tomorrow and simply not concern myself with 3x3 times whatsoever. Instead, I’m going to focus on doing well in 3BLD. And, honestly, for tomorrow I don’t much care about the other events.

Hopefully the F2L practice will payoff by the end of July when I have one in Fredericksburg (with @Old Tom ). But, as much as I hate seeing my times slowdown, I am hopeful it will be worth it in a few more weeks of practice.

Good luck for the comp.

I am also on a slow down due to F2L. It’s the hardest aspect I have had to learn to-date and it’s driving me mad. It feels anything but intuitive at the moment :-/ turning solve times from sub 2 minutes to 5+ minutes :-( and I’ve spent approx 3 hours each day this week on it!!!!!! I feel the need to punch an elephant :-D

 

[Old Tom]

Good luck for the comp.

I am also on a slow down due to F2L. It’s the hardest aspect I have had to learn to-date and it’s driving me mad. It feels anything but intuitive at the moment :-/ turning solve times from sub 2 minutes to 5+ minutes :-( and I’ve spent approx 3 hours each day this week on it!!!!!! I feel the need to punch an elephant :-D

Are you concentrating on getting to the two simple cases, prior to pair insertion? Joined Pair (aligned) or Separated Pair (pseudo-misaligned) on the U face? That is what quickly made F2L logical/intuitive for me.

 

[40yearstosolve]

Are you concentrating on getting to the two simple cases, prior to pair insertion? Joined Pair (aligned) or Separated Pair (pseudo-misaligned) on the U face? That is what quickly made F2L logical/intuitive for me.

Yes, I think so.

Same colour on top.
Opposite colours on top.
White on top.

I ‘get it’, I am just slow a) finding the matching edge to the white corner and b) then figuring out and executing the correct move.

I have a good video explaining the different rules but of course the rules sometimes don’t quite work when you are restricted on slots.

 

[Old Tom]

OK. Now, also, another part of your mind should be thinking:

Any R, L or F move is going to disturb the Cross, but you are then free to make any U move, then restore the Cross. You don't have to restore immediately, but then it will get tricky. So, I usually do.

When you do restore the Cross, you can "cleverly" first make a U turn that will drop an edge piece, to be brought up next with a desired location and/or twist.

As you already know, when pairs have already been inserted, they have to be preserved. It has helped me a lot to realize that when you slide that completed block along the bottom, it can then be easily returned to its location. But if you slide it up, uhh, don't do that unless you are smarter than me.

Those three general ideas, and others that I keep finding along the way, are part of the "Oh, what fun" aspect of F2L.

Yes, I think so.

Same colour on top.
Opposite colours on top.
White on top.

I ‘get it’, I am just slow a) finding the matching edge to the white corner and b) then figuring out and executing the correct move.

I have a good video explaining the different rules but of course the rules sometimes don’t quite work when you are restricted on slots.

so

 

[JohnnyReggae]

So I managed to smash my mo3 and ao5 in today's fairly long session A total of 240 solves (I said it was long) ... of those 121 were sub-15 with 4 10's and 5 11's .... followed by plenty of 12's, 13's, and 14's

Generated By csTimer on 2018-6-29
mean of 3: 11.83

Time List:
1. 12.99 R U2 F2 U2 L2 F' D2 F2 L2 F2 L2 B' L B F L D R2 B' L2 R2
2. 10.71 B2 D U B2 D F2 D L2 B2 R F' D' U' L2 R B' U L'
3. 11.80 B D2 R2 F2 U2 B2 U' B2 L2 F2 L2 D' R F' U' B F2 L D2 R'

Generated By csTimer on 2018-6-29
avg of 5: 12.71

Time List:
1. (15.64) L' B' U2 L2 U2 R2 U2 B2 U2 L R D' L' F D L2 R'
2. 12.99 R U2 F2 U2 L2 F' D2 F2 L2 F2 L2 B' L B F L D R2 B' L2 R2
3. (10.71) B2 D U B2 D F2 D L2 B2 R F' D' U' L2 R B' U L'
4. 11.80 B D2 R2 F2 U2 B2 U' B2 L2 F2 L2 D' R F' U' B F2 L D2 R'
5. 13.34 U2 B U2 B' D2 U2 R2 F U2 R2 B' U F' L R' U R' B' L2 B2

 

[40yearstosolve]

OK. Now, also, another part of your mind should be thinking:

Any R, L or F move is going to disturb the Cross, but you are then free to make any U move, then restore the Cross. You don't have to restore immediately, but then it will get tricky. So, I usually do.

When you do restore the Cross, you can "cleverly" first make a U turn that will drop an edge piece, to be brought up next with a desired location and/or twist.

As you already know, when pairs have already been inserted, they have to be preserved. It has helped me a lot to realize that when you slide that completed block along the bottom, it can then be easily returned to its location. But if you slide it up, uhh, don't do that unless you are smarter than me.

Those three general ideas, and others that I keep finding along the way, are part of the "Oh, what fun" aspect of F2L.


so

Haha yes it’s quite a mind bender. The theory actually is quite easy, and the turns are simple. But it requires quite a lot of brain power to figure out where the block is and what move to make based on orientation. Compared to the ‘beginners’ first two layer approach which is more ‘match and move’ and you can drift off into a semi-conscious malaise

Am I correct in thinking that with the ‘opposite colours’ scenario where ideally you would align the white block with its matching side that sometimes you cannot do this because of preserving the completed slots? —I have contemplated videoing myself to show you, part of my main struggle with motivation is the confidence knowing I am doing things correctly/optimally. There’s nothing more off-putting that the niggling doubt that you are doing it wrong and learning a bad technique.

 

[newtonbase]

Good luck @SpartanSailor and everyone else competing this weekend! And good luck @newtonbase, I hope you get to compete!

Yes, good luck everyone.
I've pretty much given up on getting a chance to compete which means my next MBLD will be WSM. It's a shame as I've been practicing for over 10 weeks to qualify for the UKs.
Was there a pre comp email?

 

[Jason Green]

Haha yes it’s quite a mind bender. The theory actually is quite easy, and the turns are simple. But it requires quite a lot of brain power to figure out where the block is and what move to make based on orientation. Compared to the ‘beginners’ first two layer approach which is more ‘match and move’ and you can drift off into a semi-conscious malaise

Am I correct in thinking that with the ‘opposite colours’ scenario where ideally you would align the white block with its matching side that sometimes you cannot do this because of preserving the completed slots? —I have contemplated videoing myself to show you, part of my main struggle with motivation is the confidence knowing I am doing things correctly/optimally. There’s nothing more off-putting that the niggling doubt that you are doing it wrong and learning a bad technique.

You can always do any of the cases, but sometimes there is an extra setup move first. For opposite colors, the edge has to be across from the corner such that the white sticker is on the "side" of the pair (either left or right). If the edge is across such the white sticker is "behind" the pair, then first you need to move the edge in place. So you could "hide" the corner by putting it down and bringing an unsolved pair up, then do a U or U' to position the edge, then restore the cross. After that you execute the normal insert.

Kind of hard to describe easily huh? It would be great if you could sit with a cuber and let them watch, I bet they could help with your confusion very quickly!

 

[pglewis]

I have a good video explaining the different rules but of course the rules sometimes don’t quite work when you are restricted on slots.

A tiny bit of edge orientation magic might be useful. When you have both corner and edge in the U face and they're apart (not joined incorrectly): look at the color on top of the edge you want to pair and put that color in front. This isn't always good advice but right now it will probably save you a lot of rotations and set you up for the best inserts for the 3 main cases. Orienting this way guarantees the target slot will be in either the front left or front right and thus not a restricted slot.

White on top: orient based on the top color on the edge, line the edge's side color up with either the L or R side depending on which it matches, all set to start paring them turning that side away from the front.

Same color on top: same deal, whatever the top of the edge is put that in front. Put the corner in the back left or back right, whichever side the pair goes in. Hide that corner by turning whichever side it's on away from the front, move the edge to the back, un-hide the corner and they're paired.

Different colors on top: a little trickier because you must have the corner and edge in one correct alignment before the insert, but once you do: same choice for front color as the other two cases and the 3 move insert is done with the corner in your front right or front left, whichever side the target slot is on.

Pairs that are already incorrectly joined together throw another wrench into things and I suggest just playing around with those cases and learning how you can deal with them. It pays off, you'll get a better feel for what you can and can't do during F2L. You can always consult us or one of the many alg lists if a specific case stumps you or is annoying.

 

[pglewis]

Good luck to all those competing or hoping to this weekend!

 

[40yearstosolve]

You can always do any of the cases,

It sounds like you execute F2L in a more automated way. Any of the cases? Do you execute randomly a case to see if it works? I am hunting for what feels like forever just to find the edge square. It’s really starting to agitate me how slow I am at even recognising a scenario. I can see there are less moves than my beginners method but wow this is hurting my mind and enthusiasm.

 

[40yearstosolve]

A tiny bit of edge orientation magic might be useful. When you have both corner and edge in the U face and they're apart (not joined incorrectly): look at the color on top of the edge you want to pair and put that color in front. This isn't always good advice but right now it will probably save you a lot of rotations and set you up for the best inserts for the 3 main cases. Orienting this way guarantees the target slot will be in either the front left or front right and thus not a restricted slot.

White on top: orient based on the top color on the edge, line the edge's side color up with either the L or R side depending on which it matches, all set to start paring them turning that side away from the front.

Same color on top: same deal, whatever the top of the edge is put that in front. Put the corner in the back left or back right, whichever side the pair goes in. Hide that corner by turning whichever side it's on away from the front, move the edge to the back, un-hide the corner and they're paired.

Different colors on top: a little trickier because you must have the corner and edge in one correct alignment before the insert, but once you do: same choice for front color as the other two cases and the 3 move insert is done with the corner in your front right or front left, whichever side the target slot is on.

Pairs that are already incorrectly joined together throw another wrench into things and I suggest just playing around with those cases and learning how you can deal with them. It pays off, you'll get a better feel for what you can and can't do during F2L. You can always consult us or one of the many alg lists if a specific case stumps you or is annoying.

More nuggets in there than I count on both hands thank you I will incorporate ghost into my cheat sheet.

But goodness I am in a bad mood trying to figure it out. So far my cubing has been quite relaxing but this has got me angry :-/

 

[chtiger]

Comp for me tomorrow too. I'll post some goals because why not--
at least 3 PBs including one of the following (in order of likelihood):
2x2: sub 6 avg
clock: sub 9 avg
pyra: sub 10 avg
3x3: sub 20 avg
3BLD: any avg
4BLD: sub 10:00

Practicing yesterday, had my first sub 8 clock avg of 12. Previous best was 8.32

Spoiler: 7.94 avg of 12

1. 7.16 UR2+ DR2+ DL0+ UL5+ U4+ R4- D2- L0+ ALL5- y2 U2+ R2- D2+ L3- ALL3- UR DR UL
2. 7.66 UR1- DR5- DL0+ UL4- U0+ R1+ D5- L1+ ALL6+ y2 U4+ R0+ D1- L2+ ALL0+ DR DL
3. 7.11 UR6+ DR2+ DL4+ UL5+ U2- R4+ D2+ L4- ALL2- y2 U5- R0+ D3- L3- ALL1- DL UL
4. 8.23 UR2- DR1- DL1+ UL3+ U4+ R1+ D2+ L4+ ALL4- y2 U1+ R2- D3- L1- ALL5- DR DL UL
5. 7.81 UR0+ DR1+ DL5- UL2+ U2- R6+ D1- L5+ ALL3- y2 U1- R2- D1- L3+ ALL2- DL
6. 9.40 UR1+ DR6+ DL1- UL4+ U5+ R2+ D3+ L1+ ALL2+ y2 U4- R1+ D5+ L5- ALL1- DR UL
7. (9.74) UR2- DR1+ DL4- UL5+ U2- R2- D6+ L1- ALL6+ y2 U1+ R1- D4- L2+ ALL5+ UR UL
8. 8.16 UR4+ DR6+ DL5- UL4- U5+ R6+ D3+ L6+ ALL0+ y2 U5+ R5- D5- L2- ALL1- UR
9. 7.66 UR2- DR0+ DL3- UL3- U3+ R2- D2+ L4- ALL1- y2 U1+ R1+ D3+ L4- ALL5+ UR UL
10. 8.17 UR6+ DR4- DL4- UL2- U2- R2+ D4+ L5+ ALL0+ y2 U0+ R4- D2+ L1- ALL4+ UL
11. 8.07 UR0+ DR2- DL6+ UL5+ U4+ R1+ D4+ L6+ ALL5- y2 U4- R2- D3- L4- ALL1- DR DL
12. (6.98) UR5- DR1- DL4- UL2- U1- R2- D3+ L5+ ALL6+ y2 U0+ R1- D4+ L0+ ALL5+ UR DL UL

 

[Jason Green]

It sounds like you execute F2L in a more automated way. Any of the cases? Do you execute randomly a case to see if it works? I am hunting for what feels like forever just to find the edge square. It’s really starting to agitate me how slow I am at even recognising a scenario. I can see there are less moves than my beginners method but wow this is hurting my mind and enthusiasm.

Sorry what I meant was any of the 3 basic cases. Same color on top, opposite colors on top, or white on top. It can be hard spotting the edge, I can relate when I try to be color neutral! This is probably what you do already, but I suggest finding a white corner, seeing what two other colors are on that corner (say red and blue), and then looking for the red and blue edge.

 

[openseas]

Good luck to all, we'll be also competing tomorrow as well.
This will be my 2nd Summer comp I'm organizing out of 4 (summer comps) in total. Unfortunately, Jason can't make it, but I found a new oldie(!) registered, excited to find him tomorrow. Good thing to be an organizer, you get to see competitors' age information

Will give you guys update after the comp!

 

[Old Tom]

Haha yes it’s quite a mind bender. The theory actually is quite easy, and the turns are simple. But it requires quite a lot of brain power to figure out where the block is and what move to make based on orientation. Compared to the ‘beginners’ first two layer approach which is more ‘match and move’ and you can drift off into a semi-conscious malaise

Am I correct in thinking that with the ‘opposite colours’ scenario where ideally you would align the white block with its matching side that sometimes you cannot do this because of preserving the completed slots? —I have contemplated videoing myself to show you, part of my main struggle with motivation is the confidence knowing I am doing things correctly/optimally. There’s nothing more off-putting that the niggling doubt that you are doing it wrong and learning a bad technique.

Actually, if I understand you, no. You can always create a desired "opposite colors" case (I and I think others call that the Separated Pairs case) by dropping down an edge, then bringing it up. And you can always "drop and then bring back" without permanently messing up a completed slot, by inserting appropriate U moves before the drop and before the bring. Make the first U so that the drop is into an available slot and so that the completed block on the same face slides along the bottom (will slide back later). This is one of the points in my earlier post.

Sorry that I can't make videos to explain. I could write down the alg (I never do, but could), but would also have to show you the starting state.

I guess I need to learn to make videos and/or graphics that I can post.

 

[pglewis]

More nuggets in there than I count on both hands thank you I will incorporate ghost into my cheat sheet.

But goodness I am in a bad mood trying to figure it out. So far my cubing has been quite relaxing but this has got me angry :-/

FWIW, my current frustrations are pretty much the same as yours. My pauses to find the pieces I need are much shorter, but I'm still working to find things faster myself. Patience. Or failing that, stubbornness is a fair substitute.

 

[40yearstosolve]

Comp for me tomorrow too. I'll post some goals because why not--
at least 3 PBs including one of the following (in order of likelihood):
2x2: sub 6 avg
clock: sub 9 avg
pyra: sub 10 avg
3x3: sub 20 avg
3BLD: any avg
4BLD: sub 10:00

Practicing yesterday, had my first sub 8 clock avg of 12. Previous best was 8.32

Spoiler: 7.94 avg of 12

1. 7.16 UR2+ DR2+ DL0+ UL5+ U4+ R4- D2- L0+ ALL5- y2 U2+ R2- D2+ L3- ALL3- UR DR UL
2. 7.66 UR1- DR5- DL0+ UL4- U0+ R1+ D5- L1+ ALL6+ y2 U4+ R0+ D1- L2+ ALL0+ DR DL
3. 7.11 UR6+ DR2+ DL4+ UL5+ U2- R4+ D2+ L4- ALL2- y2 U5- R0+ D3- L3- ALL1- DL UL
4. 8.23 UR2- DR1- DL1+ UL3+ U4+ R1+ D2+ L4+ ALL4- y2 U1+ R2- D3- L1- ALL5- DR DL UL
5. 7.81 UR0+ DR1+ DL5- UL2+ U2- R6+ D1- L5+ ALL3- y2 U1- R2- D1- L3+ ALL2- DL
6. 9.40 UR1+ DR6+ DL1- UL4+ U5+ R2+ D3+ L1+ ALL2+ y2 U4- R1+ D5+ L5- ALL1- DR UL
7. (9.74) UR2- DR1+ DL4- UL5+ U2- R2- D6+ L1- ALL6+ y2 U1+ R1- D4- L2+ ALL5+ UR UL
8. 8.16 UR4+ DR6+ DL5- UL4- U5+ R6+ D3+ L6+ ALL0+ y2 U5+ R5- D5- L2- ALL1- UR
9. 7.66 UR2- DR0+ DL3- UL3- U3+ R2- D2+ L4- ALL1- y2 U1+ R1+ D3+ L4- ALL5+ UR UL
10. 8.17 UR6+ DR4- DL4- UL2- U2- R2+ D4+ L5+ ALL0+ y2 U0+ R4- D2+ L1- ALL4+ UL
11. 8.07 UR0+ DR2- DL6+ UL5+ U4+ R1+ D4+ L6+ ALL5- y2 U4- R2- D3- L4- ALL1- DR DL
12. (6.98) UR5- DR1- DL4- UL2- U1- R2- D3+ L5+ ALL6+ y2 U0+ R1- D4+ L0+ ALL5+ UR DL UL

Unbelievable! Good luck.