Older cubers discussions

[SpartanSailor]

BTW, JPerm's PDF that goes with the vid I posted above is a gold mine, IMO. I can only really digest one or two new things at a time so it's a gift that keeps on giving.

Do you pay attention to edge orientation and use any alternate inserts to flip edges when needed? I have a few alternates for special cases besides just straight sledgehammer. It has taken a while for any of that to pay off with recognition but I'm beginning to be glad I added them.

I’m starting with the situations that I seem to see often and feel like I waste a LOT of moves getting a solution. There are a few that I’ve happened upon accidentally too... that I like... but that only adds to my confusion.

 

[mark49152]

You all seem to call this "intuitive", but really, for me, it is at this stage "logical and analytic", my mind is fully involved and I am sort of solving every new position all over again, but with increasing ease, increasing speed, and without really trying to remember anything other than general principles (and formulating these principles as I go on).

You've captured it perfectly. I remember pointing out on this forum, when I joined a few years ago, that "intuitive" doesn't seem the right word to describe this process of learning F2L. But nevertheless, that's what the community calls it, and we're stuck with it.

 

[40yearstosolve]

If you'd like to understand the last layer a little better you might find the way I teach it to beginners interesting / helpful:

https://github.com/Logiqx/cubing-docs/tree/master/beginner (parts 3 + 4)

This leads into what I call "improver" level which is an easy progression:

https://github.com/Logiqx/cubing-docs/tree/master/improver (parts 3 + 4)

I think you'd probably benefit from the improver approach until such time as you decide to learn "4-look last layer" but start by reviewing the beginner version.

Logiqx thanks so much, I woke this morning to try F2L and it seems it is sinking in. So I hope I’ll be onto those last layer improvements soon cheers.

Do you teach the cube then?

 

[40yearstosolve]

Bear in mind that I've been cubing since 2012. Whilst my progress is really quite slow compared to the kids it does show what can be done by someone older and with less spare time.

I doubt you're doing anything wrong at this stage. In a week or two your solve times will be better than your current record.

Progress often feels slow but every now you'll look back and see how much you've improved.

Edit: I'd second the RiDo video as a good tutorial.

That’s encouraging re 2 weeks. I’ll stick st it The spare time comment is so true - although I am off work until I recover so the cube is my best friend currently - I get to practise as soon as the kids go to school. My son’s progress is very fast, he’s one algo away from solving it himself. I see my 1980s self in home - at the time I was clueless and I doubt I cared enough to truly try and solve it, whereas my son has really taken to it (must be the great fathering he is receiving!!!)

 

[40yearstosolve]

It is an ongoing series of "aha!" moments and I continue to get them as I progress. When I took up blindfold solving (which a year and a half ago I would have told you there's no way I can learn) it brought a whole new pile of "aha!" moments and learning from the accomplished folks here keeps bringing more insight.

You are learning the ropes and how things work right now. Even if it takes you 10 minutes experimenting with a single pair you'll come out with new intuition that will make that situation easier the next time you encounter it. You can solve anything with the three basic cases: corner with white facing up, corner and edge same color facing up, corner and edge different colors facing up. The first pair is easiest in the sense that none of the slots are solved so you can use any slot to split/move pieces around to get them ready to insert. As you solve some slots you become more restricted in order to preserve solved pairs.

A couple of weeks of practicing those basics will open your eyes to troublesome cases and you'll pick up tricks to handle those better. There are lots of F2L cases, I still continue to evaluate how I deal with certain F2L cases and whether or not there is a better way, that's been ongoing for me for two years.

Also: definitely don't worry about any distinction between "intuitive F2L" and "algorithmic F2L". No matter how you learn it'll become automatic with practice.

You speak wise (and true) words. It doesn’t feel like it at first but after a couple of days it does start to click a little. I’ll report back in 2 years :-D

 

[40yearstosolve]

As a point of reference about slowing down... I use primarily intuitive f2l. Just figured out the basics of how to pair the pieces and just got faster at the same thing. I’ve hit a wall and feel like there are some algs for particular cases that would be beneficial to me now. Well, just adding a couple new options has slowed me considerably. Now I have “think” if that’s the setup I know or not, then I need to remember the alg and do it and hope I don’t make an error.

It can be frustrating, but I know this slowing down is temporary. And I can tell the solution for a pair is faster so, when I get it into muscle memory, my time will return and I’ll probably finally break thru my next wall...

Anytime you learn something new, you will slow down a bit. But the gains after that are substantial as well.

Great to hear you have the same experience.

I can’t stress enough that having this forum is such a help, practically, but also emotionally Which sounds strange but a lot of the achievement with the cube comes with a lot of time and it’s easy to lose motivation and focus. So hearing others’ achievements keeps me going.

What were your times before/during/after times?

 

[40yearstosolve]

I am pretty much where you are on this, except (1) I am older, by a lot, and (2) I am not so much focussed on speed as on enjoying the learning process.

I started F2L last April and then, very quickly, once I became aware of the two basic simple cases, could solve anything that came up without learning any algs. You all seem to call this "intuitive", but really, for me, it is at this stage "logical and analytic", my mind is fully involved and I am sort of solving every new position all over again, but with increasing ease, increasing speed, and without really trying to remember anything other than general principles (and formulating these principles as I go on). By the time it becomes "intuitive", muscle-memory, etc., some of the fun of solving it may actually be gone.

There's a price of course. If I'm focussing on the current sequence, then there is zero look-ahead. If the goal is to get faster, then I guess I wiil have to categorize all the cases, recognize them quickly and apply my by-then "intuitive" moves.

I'm just in no rush to move on to that stage.

I lie! The Fredericksburg Open is approaching.

There is a lovely philosophical approach there and one we could all do to remember: enjoy the act of learning. As humans we always want more and during the learning phase we have a ton of this. Once it becomes muscle memory that is gone. Sure we have the sense of achievement. But the learning is just as enjoyable.

That’s given me a bit of a buzz for the day, thanks Tom. Instead of fighting it and feeling frustration, I will embrace it today. We’ve got lovely weather here at the moment so another day say outside listening to the birds and life go by whilst I crunch the cube is not a bad way to spend your time is it

Cheers Tom. I will allow you to take some smugness in the fact that age has its advantages: something my kids groan at when I try to impart my experience into them haha NOW GET YOUR SHOES ON AND BRUSH YOUR TEETH YOU LITTLE SH.....

:-D

 

[Logiqx]

Logiqx thanks so much, I woke this morning to try F2L and it seems it is sinking in. So I hope I’ll be onto those last layer improvements soon cheers.

Do you teach the cube then?

I've taught my other half, my nephew, several friends and work colleagues... about 20 people in total. Some of them have also gone on to teach others.

I created the slide decks so that people could refer back to the merhod and have some basic cube theory if they want it.

Some people stick with the beginner method, some the improver method and some have gone on to learn 4LLL and even PLL.

 

[SpartanSailor]

Great to hear you have the same experience.

I can’t stress enough that having this forum is such a help, practically, but also emotionally Which sounds strange but a lot of the achievement with the cube comes with a lot of time and it’s easy to lose motivation and focus. So hearing others’ achievements keeps me going.

What were your times before/during/after times?

I was over a minute when I started learning F2L. I remember wanting to “get under a minute” and when I learned F2L I slowed down a lot. But then I had some steady improvement. Got under a minute and kept going. Now, I average 24-25 seconds but have been “stuck” for awhile. I am taking some time to add more tools to my kit, so to speak. I am experiencing the slow down effect right now as well. But when what I’m learning is more second nature I think I’ll get that elusive sub-20 in comps.

 

[40yearstosolve]

I've taught my other half, my nephew, several friends and work colleagues... about 20 people in total. Some of them have also gone on to teach others.

I created the slide decks so that people could refer back to the merhod and have some basic cube theory if they want it.

Some people stick with the beginner method, some the improver method and some have gone on to learn 4LLL and even PLL.

Ye I can see why people stick with beginner method. It is definitely an achievement.

I base my success in being able a) solve it (done and b) solving it fast enough for someone not to get bored when they ask me to do it, I reckon that’s sub 1 minute.

The slide deck sounds a great idea, I could use that to teach my youngest, he’s only 7 and not quite as focused as my 9 year old.

I like the fact that you have an ever growing pool of solvers, well done.

 

[40yearstosolve]

I was over a minute when I started learning F2L. I remember wanting to “get under a minute” and when I learned F2L I slowed down a lot. But then I had some steady improvement. Got under a minute and kept going. Now, I average 24-25 seconds but have been “stuck” for awhile. I am taking some time to add more tools to my kit, so to speak. I am experiencing the slow down effect right now as well. But when what I’m learning is more second nature I think I’ll get that elusive sub-20 in comps.

I’d love to get down to sub 1 minute and 25s is just ridiculous isn’t it :-D it’s laughably fast.

 

[Logiqx]

I caught this on film so thought I would post!

Probability of a cross skip (any colour) is approximately 1 in 31,704

 

[Logiqx]

One last pre-comp video. I haven't recorded any 2x2x2 solves at home in a long time, almost 3 years!

I'm not far off my times from earlier this year but I don't expect to do any more practice before the weekend.

Times: 4.61 4.33 (2.75) 4.59 4.58 5.07 5.27 4.74 3.57 (5.92) (NaN) 3.67 4.15 = 4.45 Ao12

Last 5 solves are a 4.18 Ao5. Fingers crossed for nice scrambles this weekend!

 

[pglewis]

By the time it becomes "intuitive", muscle-memory, etc., some of the fun of solving it may actually be gone.

Oh, do not worry yourself one bit! We're here to push you to take up blindfolded well before you reach ennui.

 

[Old Tom]

Oh, do not worry yourself one bit! We're here to push you to take up blindfolded well before you reach ennui.

Oh! I hope not. But who knows. Ennui must be avoided at all cost.

 

[40yearstosolve]

I caught this on film so thought I would post!

Probability of a cross skip (any colour) is approximately 1 in 31,704

WTF you just solved this with one bloody hand! Is this video about some cross skip or the bonkers way you seemed to defy gravity!!

 

[Logiqx]

WTF you just solved this with one bloody hand! Is this video about some cross skip or the bonkers way you seemed to defy gravity!!

Lol. I was practising OH at the time so the cross skip is the main theme of the video.

It also goes to show that some CN (colour neutral) skills can be useful despite having a white / yellow bias during inspection.

Since you're just starting out, I'd suggest you go colour neutral before you get too stuck on a single colour cross.

 

[40yearstosolve]

Since you're just starting out, I'd suggest you go colour neutral before you get too stuck on a single colour cross.

I just had a panic attack :-D

 

[JohnnyReggae]

Just managed to smash by 3x3 ao12 with my first sub-14 mo3 and ao5 were close but not pb's. I did manage to keep the ao12 sub-14 for 8 rolling solves which for me is a feat in itself. This was the best of them.

Generated By csTimer on 2018-6-29
avg of 12: 13.46

Time List:
1. 12.74 B2 L F2 L2 U D' R F2 D' R2 U' L2 B2 U B2 U B2
2. 13.76 B L2 D2 F' L2 F U2 F2 R2 B D' F D2 R' D2 B2 R D U' L'
3. 13.20 L2 B' R2 U2 F2 L2 B' D2 B D' B R B R2 B L' F2 U2 R2
4. 12.38 L' D2 R2 F L2 F' R2 B U2 R2 L' D F' L R2 U B D' F
5. 14.16 F U2 R2 F' U2 B D2 U2 F' D2 F' D R2 F' D' L' F2 U2 R2 F' D
6. 12.43 U2 B' F2 U2 F L2 F R2 D2 R2 F R U' B2 D' B' U' F2 L' R'
7. 14.47 R' D2 R2 D2 F2 L2 U2 L' D2 R' F D' L2 B' R' F' L' F' D2 B'
8. 14.05 B2 R B' R' F2 L U F' L' U2 D2 B2 R2 U F2 B2 U'
9. (11.49) L2 D' F U' B L B R' D2 F R F2 U2 L' B2 U2 R F2 R D2 R
10. (16.21) R2 B' D2 U2 L2 D2 B' U2 F' L2 B U' B L2 B L' D U' B2 L2 B
11. 13.43 F2 B L' B U' R L' D' F' U' B' D2 L2 B2 L2 B2 D2 L2 F
12. 13.96 R' B2 R' L2 D' F' D2 B' U2 R' U2 F2 U B2 L2 U2 D' R2 F2 L2

 

[SpartanSailor]

Final day prior to my competition tomorrow in Maryland, USA. I haven’t had much chance in the past couple days to practice 3BLD. But, have been drilling edges a little and still feel that I’m in decent “shape” to get a sub-5. It’s absolutlely doable... just hope my nerves don’t supercede my knowledge.

As to my 3x3 or 4x4 and Skewb... forget about it. I haven’t touched my skewb in so long, I’ll have to dust it off. As to 4x4, I’ve been stuck around mid-1:20s for a long time. I’ve learned a couple special last two edge cases, but I don’t see that helping tremendously. Maybe a second or two if that particular case shows up (and I notice while under the pressure of the timer). I DO think my next 4x4 “breakthrough” will happen along with my 3x3 breakthrough. Which brings me to 3x3.

I have NOT had a good week of time leading up to tomorrow. MUCH slower this morning than I have been in several months. Perhaps I’m not fully warmed up, or something, but having added just a few F2L algs to my kit has had a serious impact on my times. I’m going to try to keep my ego in check tomorrow and simply not concern myself with 3x3 times whatsoever. Instead, I’m going to focus on doing well in 3BLD. And, honestly, for tomorrow I don’t much care about the other events.

Hopefully the F2L practice will payoff by the end of July when I have one in Fredericksburg (with @Old Tom ). But, as much as I hate seeing my times slowdown, I am hopeful it will be worth it in a few more weeks of practice.