D
Daniel Lin
Guest
it's basically the same thing as Old Pochmann, except with UFR as the buffer (instead of UBL)
you set up your target to UBL (and do U2 yperm U2), UBR (and do J perm) or UFL ( and do the other j perm)
Random Blindfold Cubing Discussion
- Thread starter Xishem
- Start date
you set up your target to UBL (and do U2 yperm U2), UBR (and do J perm) or UFL ( and do the other j perm)
mark49152
Premium Member
OK thanks. That plus U2/r2 sounds a lot of work on a 10x10.
OJ Cubing
Regular
So I think I'm close to being able to attempt 5BLD, given that I'm getting confident with 4 BLD.
I don't really want a tutorial so can someone tell me the parity algorithm to use for the middle edges? Obviously the normal M2 parity alg would only swap the middle edges but for OP corners you need to swap the full edge pairs - does anyone know an alg for this as it is all I need to know now!
(I use U2 centres for both types, r2 for wings, M2 middle edges and OP Corners)
I don't really want a tutorial so can someone tell me the parity algorithm to use for the middle edges? Obviously the normal M2 parity alg would only swap the middle edges but for OP corners you need to swap the full edge pairs - does anyone know an alg for this as it is all I need to know now!
(I use U2 centres for both types, r2 for wings, M2 middle edges and OP Corners)
mark49152
Premium Member
Assuming you use the usual M2/OP parity fix D' L2 D M2 D' L2 D you can embed a double wing swap in the middle of this, so
D' L2 D M2 (F2 Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2 F2) D' L2 D
That makes it easier to understand and remember.
Hssandwich
Veteran
D' L2 D M2 (F2 r2 U2 r U2 r2 U2 r2 U2 r U2 r2 U2 F2) D' L2 D also works.
OJ Cubing
Regular
Thank you!! This is just what I needed!!!
Riddler97
Regular
I often just use the normal D' L2 D M2 D' L2 D immediately after doing midges, then when I'm done executing corners I use this alg - U2 R U R' U' Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2 U R U' R' U2 - which is just an opposite swap for wings (Rw2 F2 U2 r2 U2 F2 Rw2) with a U2, sexy move setup. But I mainly just use this because it's the same as my 4BLD corner parity alg, also it's really fingertirick friendly.
pinser
Regular
(I know this belongs in the reconstruction thread, but I figured BLDers don't check it. Mods, please move this if you think it doesn't belong here.)
Kaijun Lin - 4:46.74 Former 5BLD WR - Shanghai Winter is Coming 2016
Scramble: Rw Uw F2 Dw2 B2 U2 Fw' Uw D Rw Bw' Dw2 Bw D R2 U' L F R Rw F' Dw' B2 Rw Bw2 Rw R L' Lw F2 D2 L2 Fw2 Bw' R Lw D2 Uw R U' L R2 B2 U2 F Bw2 Lw2 Dw U' Lw Bw2 Dw' L2 U' F2 R2 Dw' B' R' L 3Fw
memo: ~2min
//OB solving orientation
//Most slice moves performed as wide then outer (eg-M=3Rw' Rw), but sometimes index push for u, E, and d slices
//Kaijun's good at cancelling rotations
x' y2 //Orient
//Corners (DFR Buffer)
R U R2 U' R' F2 R U R2 U' R' F2 x'//DBL -> UFR
R2 L' U' L U R2 U' L' U L //UBR -> ULB
x U' x' R U' R D2 R' U R D2 R2 F //UFL -> LFD
R2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' L' U2 L U L' U L 4Lw R //Corner twist
//Midges (DF Buffer)
U x U' L' U M2 U' L U x' M2 U' //FL -> RB
M2 U' R2 U M2 U' R2 U //UB -> RF
U' x R' U R U' M2 U R' U' R x' M2 U x //UR ->LB
U' D M' U' M D' M' U M U //BU -> DL
x' U R' U M2 U' R U M2 U2 x //RD -> DB
M' U' M D M' U M D' //DL -> LU
x' U2 4Rw U' L' U M2 U' L U 4Rw' M2 U2 x //UL -> RB
//Wings (DFr buffer)
L2 U Rw2 R2 U' L U Rw2 R2 U' L //DLf -> FLu
Uw' U L U Rw2 R2 U' L2 U Rw2 R2 U' L Uw U' //BLd -> LBu
4Rw2 3Rw2 U y Rw' R D Rw R' U' Rw' R D' Rw R' y' 4Rw2 3Rw2 //FDl ->RUb
U' x' Rw' R U R U' Rw R' U R' U' F //BDr -> UFl
F' Rw2 R2 U' R' U Rw2 R2 U' R U F //URf -> RDf
F U' R2 U Rw2 R2 U' R2 U x Rw2 R2 U' //RFu -> LUb
B2 U' L U Rw2 R2 U' L' U Rw2 R2 B2 //BRu -> DBl
Lw' L U' R2 U' Rw2 R2 U R2 U' Rw2 R2 U2 3Rw' 3Rw 4Rw' 3Rw //Drb -> FDl
U B' R U' x' U Rw2 R2 U' F R' U x U' Rw2 R2 //BUl -> UBr
x Rw' R U L U' Rw R' U L' U' x' //LUf -> FUr
x' U Rw2 R2 U L U' Rw2 R2 U L' U2 x //RBd -> Ldb
U2 Rw R' U L' U' Rw' R U L U //BUl -> LFd
x R2 U' Rw' R D' Rw R' U Rw' R D Rw R' R2 x' //RFd -> LFd
//x-centers (Ufl Buffer)
D y 4Rw2 3Rw2 D Rw2 R2 D' 4Rw2 3Rw2 D Rw2 R2 D2 y' //Dlf -> Ulb
U' Uw U' 4Rw 3Rw' U2 4Rw' 3Rw Uw' U 4Rw 3Rw' U2 4Rw' 3Rw U //Rfu -> Flu
x Uw2 U2 Rw R' U2 Rw' R Uw2 U2 Rw R' U2 Rw' R x' //Dfr -> Fdl
Dw2 D2 Rw R' U' Rw' R Dw2 D2 Rw R' U Rw' R //Bld -> Frd
y Uw2 U2 Rw R' U Rw' R Uw2 U2 Rw R' U' Rw' R y' //Rub -> Luf
4Rw2 3Rw2 D' Rw2 R2 D 4Rw2 3Rw2 D' Rw2 R2 D //Dbl -> Urf
x' Dw D' 4Rw 3Rw' U2 4Rw' 3Rw Dw' D 4Rw 3Rw' U2 4Rw' 3Rw x //Bdr -> Lfd
Rw' R 4Dw2 3Dw2 Rw R' U2 Rw' R 4Dw2 3Dw2 Rw R' U2 //Bul -> Ubr
//+-centers (Ul Buffer)
y' x U2 x' E Rw R' U' Rw' R E' Rw R' U Rw' R y L2 //Bl -> Lb
D2 x E2 Rw R' U2 Rw' R E2 Rw R' U2 Rw' R x' D2 //Dl -> Fl
U2 y' D' U2 M' 4Dw2 3Dw2 M U2 M' 4Dw2 3Dw2 M U2 D y //Ur -> Df
R Uw U' M' U M Uw' U M' U' M R' //Rf -> Fu
x' Rw' R U Rw R' E2 Rw' R U' Rw R' E2 x //Bd -> Dr
M U2 y' M Dw' D M' U2 M Dw D' M' y M' //Uf -> Ur
U2 U2 4Rw' 3Rw E2 4Rw 3Rw' U2 4Rw' 3Rw E2 4Rw 3Rw' U2 //Ur -> Br
D' x E2 4Rw' 3Rw U2 4Rw 3Rw' E2 4Rw' 3Rw U2 4Rw 3Rw' x' D //Fr -> Db
R y Rw R' U Rw' R E2 Rw R' U' Rw' R E2 F' //Ru -> Lf
Rw R' U Rw' R E2 Rw R' U' Rw' R E2 y' //Rb -> Lf
R2 M U' M' 4Dw 3Dw' Rw' Rw 3Rw' Rw U M' Uw U' R2 //Bu -> Rd
x' U2 x Dw' D M U M' Dw D' M U' M' x' U2 //Ld -> Bu
//Parity
x' R' U' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' U R x //Parity alg #1 (F-perm)
Rw2 R2 U2 x' U2 Rw2 R2 U2 x U2 Rw2 R2 //Parity alg #2 (Dunno what this is called lol)
View at alg.cubing.net
Kaijun Lin - 4:46.74 Former 5BLD WR - Shanghai Winter is Coming 2016
Scramble: Rw Uw F2 Dw2 B2 U2 Fw' Uw D Rw Bw' Dw2 Bw D R2 U' L F R Rw F' Dw' B2 Rw Bw2 Rw R L' Lw F2 D2 L2 Fw2 Bw' R Lw D2 Uw R U' L R2 B2 U2 F Bw2 Lw2 Dw U' Lw Bw2 Dw' L2 U' F2 R2 Dw' B' R' L 3Fw
memo: ~2min
//OB solving orientation
//Most slice moves performed as wide then outer (eg-M=3Rw' Rw), but sometimes index push for u, E, and d slices
//Kaijun's good at cancelling rotations
x' y2 //Orient
//Corners (DFR Buffer)
R U R2 U' R' F2 R U R2 U' R' F2 x'//DBL -> UFR
R2 L' U' L U R2 U' L' U L //UBR -> ULB
x U' x' R U' R D2 R' U R D2 R2 F //UFL -> LFD
R2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' L' U2 L U L' U L 4Lw R //Corner twist
//Midges (DF Buffer)
U x U' L' U M2 U' L U x' M2 U' //FL -> RB
M2 U' R2 U M2 U' R2 U //UB -> RF
U' x R' U R U' M2 U R' U' R x' M2 U x //UR ->LB
U' D M' U' M D' M' U M U //BU -> DL
x' U R' U M2 U' R U M2 U2 x //RD -> DB
M' U' M D M' U M D' //DL -> LU
x' U2 4Rw U' L' U M2 U' L U 4Rw' M2 U2 x //UL -> RB
//Wings (DFr buffer)
L2 U Rw2 R2 U' L U Rw2 R2 U' L //DLf -> FLu
Uw' U L U Rw2 R2 U' L2 U Rw2 R2 U' L Uw U' //BLd -> LBu
4Rw2 3Rw2 U y Rw' R D Rw R' U' Rw' R D' Rw R' y' 4Rw2 3Rw2 //FDl ->RUb
U' x' Rw' R U R U' Rw R' U R' U' F //BDr -> UFl
F' Rw2 R2 U' R' U Rw2 R2 U' R U F //URf -> RDf
F U' R2 U Rw2 R2 U' R2 U x Rw2 R2 U' //RFu -> LUb
B2 U' L U Rw2 R2 U' L' U Rw2 R2 B2 //BRu -> DBl
Lw' L U' R2 U' Rw2 R2 U R2 U' Rw2 R2 U2 3Rw' 3Rw 4Rw' 3Rw //Drb -> FDl
U B' R U' x' U Rw2 R2 U' F R' U x U' Rw2 R2 //BUl -> UBr
x Rw' R U L U' Rw R' U L' U' x' //LUf -> FUr
x' U Rw2 R2 U L U' Rw2 R2 U L' U2 x //RBd -> Ldb
U2 Rw R' U L' U' Rw' R U L U //BUl -> LFd
x R2 U' Rw' R D' Rw R' U Rw' R D Rw R' R2 x' //RFd -> LFd
//x-centers (Ufl Buffer)
D y 4Rw2 3Rw2 D Rw2 R2 D' 4Rw2 3Rw2 D Rw2 R2 D2 y' //Dlf -> Ulb
U' Uw U' 4Rw 3Rw' U2 4Rw' 3Rw Uw' U 4Rw 3Rw' U2 4Rw' 3Rw U //Rfu -> Flu
x Uw2 U2 Rw R' U2 Rw' R Uw2 U2 Rw R' U2 Rw' R x' //Dfr -> Fdl
Dw2 D2 Rw R' U' Rw' R Dw2 D2 Rw R' U Rw' R //Bld -> Frd
y Uw2 U2 Rw R' U Rw' R Uw2 U2 Rw R' U' Rw' R y' //Rub -> Luf
4Rw2 3Rw2 D' Rw2 R2 D 4Rw2 3Rw2 D' Rw2 R2 D //Dbl -> Urf
x' Dw D' 4Rw 3Rw' U2 4Rw' 3Rw Dw' D 4Rw 3Rw' U2 4Rw' 3Rw x //Bdr -> Lfd
Rw' R 4Dw2 3Dw2 Rw R' U2 Rw' R 4Dw2 3Dw2 Rw R' U2 //Bul -> Ubr
//+-centers (Ul Buffer)
y' x U2 x' E Rw R' U' Rw' R E' Rw R' U Rw' R y L2 //Bl -> Lb
D2 x E2 Rw R' U2 Rw' R E2 Rw R' U2 Rw' R x' D2 //Dl -> Fl
U2 y' D' U2 M' 4Dw2 3Dw2 M U2 M' 4Dw2 3Dw2 M U2 D y //Ur -> Df
R Uw U' M' U M Uw' U M' U' M R' //Rf -> Fu
x' Rw' R U Rw R' E2 Rw' R U' Rw R' E2 x //Bd -> Dr
M U2 y' M Dw' D M' U2 M Dw D' M' y M' //Uf -> Ur
U2 U2 4Rw' 3Rw E2 4Rw 3Rw' U2 4Rw' 3Rw E2 4Rw 3Rw' U2 //Ur -> Br
D' x E2 4Rw' 3Rw U2 4Rw 3Rw' E2 4Rw' 3Rw U2 4Rw 3Rw' x' D //Fr -> Db
R y Rw R' U Rw' R E2 Rw R' U' Rw' R E2 F' //Ru -> Lf
Rw R' U Rw' R E2 Rw R' U' Rw' R E2 y' //Rb -> Lf
R2 M U' M' 4Dw 3Dw' Rw' Rw 3Rw' Rw U M' Uw U' R2 //Bu -> Rd
x' U2 x Dw' D M U M' Dw D' M U' M' x' U2 //Ld -> Bu
//Parity
x' R' U' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' U R x //Parity alg #1 (F-perm)
Rw2 R2 U2 x' U2 Rw2 R2 U2 x U2 Rw2 R2 //Parity alg #2 (Dunno what this is called lol)
View at alg.cubing.net
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mark49152
Premium Member
Interesting, thanks for posting this!
L
lucarubik
Guest
alright so its been 7 years since i last wrote something on this site and i was wondering how does the elite solve the rubiks cube blindfolded these days. This is how i used to do it, dont mind it too much, not the best example but..;
28.34 L' U L R D' R' B' D' L2 F B' D U' L R D2 R2 D F' D' L R' B2 U' R2
cube: DaYan Zanchi
method: BH/ freestyle
memo: audio loop
reconstruction
U L F L' B2 L F' L' B2 U'
r' U' L D' L' U L D x
U L' D2 L U' L' D2 L
U' R U M U' R' U M'
M2 U L' U' M' U L U' M'
R' U R U' M U R' U' r
R E' R' U R E R' U'
y R U M2 U' R' U M2 U' y'
R2 M' D' M U' M' D M U R2
So what is the go to 3x3 cube these days is BH/ free style with a set buffer the way to go, if so what buffers are common, corners or edges first, how to solve the parity, how to deal with passive unoriented pieces how to memorize what ot memorize first that kind of stuff, what do the best do pretty much
I've heared about floatting buffers too, is this reliable? do ppl have ways to adapt their memos to these cases, even if the cycle closes with an unoriented piece?
Im looking for the best method to solve the rubiks cube blindfolded, and ive been out for so long i dont really know where to find it, who's method is public, who is consistantly fast on his blindsolves etc, so i figued i would just ask and see if someone can show me some new techniques if anyone knows, thanks
28.34 L' U L R D' R' B' D' L2 F B' D U' L R D2 R2 D F' D' L R' B2 U' R2
cube: DaYan Zanchi
method: BH/ freestyle
memo: audio loop
reconstruction
U L F L' B2 L F' L' B2 U'
r' U' L D' L' U L D x
U L' D2 L U' L' D2 L
U' R U M U' R' U M'
M2 U L' U' M' U L U' M'
R' U R U' M U R' U' r
R E' R' U R E R' U'
y R U M2 U' R' U M2 U' y'
R2 M' D' M U' M' D M U R2
So what is the go to 3x3 cube these days is BH/ free style with a set buffer the way to go, if so what buffers are common, corners or edges first, how to solve the parity, how to deal with passive unoriented pieces how to memorize what ot memorize first that kind of stuff, what do the best do pretty much
I've heared about floatting buffers too, is this reliable? do ppl have ways to adapt their memos to these cases, even if the cycle closes with an unoriented piece?
Im looking for the best method to solve the rubiks cube blindfolded, and ive been out for so long i dont really know where to find it, who's method is public, who is consistantly fast on his blindsolves etc, so i figued i would just ask and see if someone can show me some new techniques if anyone knows, thanks
pinser
Regular
Several posts (here and here and here) brought up the idea of reorienting for 5BLD.
Gut instinct told me it wasn't worth it but now I have the math to back it up.
I wrote a script that calculates the average number of solved centers (x and + centers) from 1) a fixed orientation 2) the optimal orientation (in terms of number of centers solved) of 12 of the 24 possible orientations and 3) the optimal orientation of all 24 possible orientations. The reason I did the calculations for 12 of 24 orientations is because you can avoid center parity by restricting yourself to 12 orientations.
I ran 1 million scrambles through it and here are the results:
1. 8.055643 centers solved on the average from a fixed orientation
2. 12.425357 centers solved on the average from the optimal orientation of 12 of the 24 possible orientations
3. 13.472133 centers solved on the average from the optimal orientation
Personally, I feel like 4 or 5 more solved centers isn't worth reorienting, especially when you consider that you also have to fix the "center" centers and spend time looking for the optimal orientation (which isn't easy to find, when I compare myself against a computer I've found that I don't always orient to optimal).
Gut instinct told me it wasn't worth it but now I have the math to back it up.
I wrote a script that calculates the average number of solved centers (x and + centers) from 1) a fixed orientation 2) the optimal orientation (in terms of number of centers solved) of 12 of the 24 possible orientations and 3) the optimal orientation of all 24 possible orientations. The reason I did the calculations for 12 of 24 orientations is because you can avoid center parity by restricting yourself to 12 orientations.
I ran 1 million scrambles through it and here are the results:
1. 8.055643 centers solved on the average from a fixed orientation
2. 12.425357 centers solved on the average from the optimal orientation of 12 of the 24 possible orientations
3. 13.472133 centers solved on the average from the optimal orientation
Personally, I feel like 4 or 5 more solved centers isn't worth reorienting, especially when you consider that you also have to fix the "center" centers and spend time looking for the optimal orientation (which isn't easy to find, when I compare myself against a computer I've found that I don't always orient to optimal).
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D
Daniel Lin
Guest
IMO reorienting is definitely worth it for 5BLD, fast people are just being lazy and not learning it. If you don't have center parity the comms are super short, like [E, M] and [E2, M] and take like 1 second to execute
I'm not exactly sure how to deal with center parity tho. You need some sort of alg to cycle the centers and swap two edges (or corners)
I know a 3BLD trick but it doesb't work for big cubes. Basically you do a comm+ slice move. It doesn't work because the M move messes up centers
U M U' R' F' R S R' F R S'
pinser
Regular
That's true but I think the major factor is finding the optimal orientation. It takes time and isn't always intuitive, especially if there are no bars or clusters. Plus, center parity is no fun and could cancel out any advantage gained by reorienting. Restricting yourself to 12 orientations is messy and impractical, so that wouldn't work. If center parity didn't exist, then yeah I agree reorienting is probably worth it. But since it does, I'm not so sure.
I'm nowhere near world-class though, so it's always nice hearing thoughts from fast people like you.
mark49152
Premium Member
Thanks for doing this.
For it to be worthwhile, you must find the optimal orientation (out of 12 possible) and fix the centres faster than you can memo four extra targets and execute two centre comms. Maybe thats faster for you, but I agree with @pinser that generally it's not worth it.
It would be interesting to know what the worst case number of solved centres is. It could be worthwhile to reorient to avoid the worst case, with no time wasted checking for optimal counts. If the distribution is even, we could assume worst case is four. Now if in my fixed orientation I can quickly see that I have only four centres solved, I could quickly do a fixed rotation, say always z2, in the hope of getting the average eight at the cost of a simple centre fix that I don't have to think about.
Lid
Veteran
Here is one alg for centerparity (it's just a void cubeparity alg)
Fw Uw2 Rw Uw' Rw' Fw m Fw' Rw Uw Rw' Uw2 Fw' m2, then you need to swap 2 T-centers also.
Fw Uw2 Rw Uw' Rw' Fw m Fw' Rw Uw Rw' Uw2 Fw' m2, then you need to swap 2 T-centers also.
mark49152
Premium Member
That on its own is worse than solving four extra centres, before you even consider the time taken to choose an orientation.
pinser
Regular
Yep, basically what I was trying to say. It would be nice if we could get some numbers on how long it takes world-class 4BLDers to orient, and how often they orient to optimal.
That's an interesting idea. I made a quick adjustment and tested 10,000 scrambles. The average worst number of solved centers is 3.2888. Considering that any random orientation has an average of 8 solved centers, reorienting to a fixed rotation could be worthwhile.
L
lucarubik
Guest
so i've been working on something so important that should be posted in a new thread, and so important that i dont believe noone has done it before, so i figured i would just post it here (i understand that if i always aply that catch 22 im never opening new threads lol)
Its a list of corner cycles organized by (isometry?) a way to reduce the cases by a third, since most dont come up visually becouse of corners having 3 orientations
If someone wants to change the buffer i would asume he would have to change its sticker by their y axis simetric if its URB, x and z axes simetric if its UFR, x y and z axes if its DFR... etc, i hope im making myself understood here, ofc the algs wouldnt aply anymore lol, one could change the moves by their simetric too tho. but the results probebly wouldnt be too fast, i have to check them anyway, wich shouldnt be too painfully tedious since i have this tool
*Ive finished the algs, im pretty happy with them, all are cube explorer checked feel free to shove them up your *******
Its a list of corner cycles organized by (isometry?) a way to reduce the cases by a third, since most dont come up visually becouse of corners having 3 orientations
If someone wants to change the buffer i would asume he would have to change its sticker by their y axis simetric if its URB, x and z axes simetric if its UFR, x y and z axes if its DFR... etc, i hope im making myself understood here, ofc the algs wouldnt aply anymore lol, one could change the moves by their simetric too tho. but the results probebly wouldnt be too fast, i have to check them anyway, wich shouldnt be too painfully tedious since i have this tool
*Ive finished the algs, im pretty happy with them, all are cube explorer checked feel free to shove them up your *******
Last edited by a moderator:
OJ Cubing
Regular
I can't see any reason why they wouldn't be, but are Force Cubes BLD legal?
Meneghetti
Premium Member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2013
- Messages
- 265
- Location
- Porto Alegre, Brazil
- WCA ID
- 2012MENE01
- YouTube
- Visit Channel
So, my main cube now is the stickerless Valk3 and I was wondering if it's legal to use it in official BLD.
It has a printed logo that I really don't know how to remove. I read somewhere one guy used Mr. Clean Magic Eraser and removed it, but he noticed a different texture to it, so it doesn't really solve the BLD issue.
It has a printed logo that I really don't know how to remove. I read somewhere one guy used Mr. Clean Magic Eraser and removed it, but he noticed a different texture to it, so it doesn't really solve the BLD issue.
