Older cubers discussions

kbrune said:
I've been working on 3 cycle for corners lately. What a frustrating process! I'm finally at the point where I can solve any 3 cycle By setting up to pure comms.

However. I'm very slow! Especially when cube rotations are required. Takes forever to find a simple setup and if I have to rotate the cube it often messes me up.

I've noticed a few mentions of corner comms but am unsure who uses them in this thread.

I'm looking for any advice or tips and trick for the transition to comms. I've watched Noah's tutorial vids so I've used some of his suggestions like starting with one sticker and going through all 18 combinations. It's helped. But so far I don't see how I'll ever become quick enough to fully use comms.
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I'm learning them too and it's a long, slow process. I did start by writing them down as I did them but I'm now just doing corners only solves. I'm trying to focus on the shapes while saying the letter pair to myself on the hope that it'll stick next time. I did try to do a little flow chart of the thought process so that I could come up with a list of rules but it was far too complex. I would recommend that you learn more than just pure comms. I like columns.
 
bubbagrub said:
@Lid and @pipkiksass -- thanks both for the tips. Sounds like the way to go is to use partial edge control for avoiding dot cases. I have found it interesting how easy it is (when solving slowly) in about 75% of cases to orient all edges while inserting the last pair, but it's pretty clear that this is not of much practical value for speedsolving.
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Absolutely use sledge to avoid the dots. You'll still have to deal with dots after split pair insertions but I reckon 2/3 of my F2L solutions are joined pairs.

There are a couple of nice 5 move EO algs but their benefit is debatable if you know full OLL. The regular insert may set up an easy P case, small lightning bolt or square whereas a sledge might give you a less favourable OCLL.

Generally speaking, I think I prefer COLL + EPLL over OLL + PLL but I'm not sure I prefer OCLL cases over OLL.

I stopped using the 5 movers a long time ago but I re-learned them again after COLL at which point they became more useful.

I also played with the algs for split pairs but I don't use them now even though they lead to COLL cases. They're just too long to feel worthwhile but I may change my mind in the future.

TL;DR - Use sledge to avoid dots but leave it at that until you know COLL or a big chunk of ZBLL. EO should not be used as a way of procrastinating over learning full OLL either. ;)

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
kbrune said:
I'm looking for any advice or tips and trick for the transition to comms. I've watched Noah's tutorial vids so I've used some of his suggestions like starting with one sticker and going through all 18 combinations. It's helped. But so far I don't see how I'll ever become quick enough to fully use comms.
Click to expand...

I'm using comms too. I followed Noah tutorial and started from making a list of comms. It took me few months to make it and to get used to it. The most important thing in my opinion is understanding how they work. I switch for better solutions when I understand how they work. Many cases you can solve with setups, and sometimes you can solve the case with a pure comm but it's better to make a setup. When you start using it it's a matter of time when the solves are better and better.
 
kbrune said:
@pglewis
Keep at it. I remember when I challenged myself to become sub 30. It felt like it took forever (about 4 months) But then all of a sudden I dropped 5-8 second almost over night. (Prob over a couple weeks) I remember wondering if I was getting easy scrambles or unknowingly cheating. Sub 30 is all practice. No matter if you're 4 look LL or 1 look. You'll get there!
Click to expand...

Your support was just the push I needed... or maybe just a PLL skip :D.

single: 27.141, dropped 4.7 seconds
mo3: 31.833, dropped 4 seconds
ao5: 35.593, dropped over a second and a half

It was a good day.
 
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I thought I'd have a go at solving some of the other puzzles that have been lying around unsolved for several years.

Dino cube was easy. I solved the helicopter cube intuitively after some trial and error, and also the curvy copter. Then tried skewb. OMG, how can anyone solve that thing? Especially in a few seconds! I can't even tell what's happening when I turn it :)
 
mark49152 said:
I thought I'd have a go at solving some of the other puzzles that have been lying around unsolved for several years.

Dino cube was easy. I solved the helicopter cube intuitively after some trial and error, and also the curvy copter. Then tried skewb. OMG, how can anyone solve that thing? Especially in a few seconds! I can't even tell what's happening when I turn it :)
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The skewb makes no sense. I can solve it but I've no idea how to hold it. It sits on my left palm while I turn with my right hand inspiring looks of pity from 12yo judges.
My niece likes to mess with my head by scrambling random puzzles from my collection. My squan has sat unsolved but in cube shape for a couple of years. This morning I found it jumbled. I'm sure it's only 4 moves max off cube shape but I've given up trying to work it out.
 
bubbagrub said:
@Lid and @pipkiksass -- thanks both for the tips. Sounds like the way to go is to use partial edge control for avoiding dot cases. I have found it interesting how easy it is (when solving slowly) in about 75% of cases to orient all edges while inserting the last pair, but it's pretty clear that this is not of much practical value for speedsolving.
Click to expand...
I still believe it is good to learn full oll. It will help you to become more familliar with what is happening during LL solving. You can still utilise hammer for f2l insert later, depending on situation. Why do you find dot cases difficult? They are mostly combination of other cases. Do you have problem with recognition? I started cubing a year ago again after 33 years. First thing i started is to learn oll, as we already used f2l and some pll back in 1981. At the beginning olls looked too simillar and especially hard to recognise, because it is so many of them. Eventually you'll find your own way of recognition. The most important for me is that i learned a lot about the movement on the cube by trying to observe what is hapenning during whole faze of each oll. So i find them very usefull for other algorithms.
The time you need to decide about last f2l insert is probably the same or longer then recognising and executing longer oll case.
 
newtonbase said:
The skewb makes no sense. I can solve it but I've no idea how to hold it. It sits on my left palm while I turn with my right hand inspiring looks of pity from 12yo judges.
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The thing I can't grasp about skewb is that half the pieces are affected by each move. I don't have any other puzzles like that and am struggling to figure it out intuitively because it behaves so differently.
 
mitja said:
I still believe it is good to learn full oll. It will help you to become more familliar with what is happening during LL solving. You can still utilise hammer for f2l insert later, depending on situation. Why do you find dot cases difficult? They are mostly combination of other cases. Do you have problem with recognition? I started cubing a year ago again after 33 years. First thing i started is to learn oll, as we already used f2l and some pll back in 1981. At the beginning olls looked too simillar and especially hard to recognise, because it is so many of them. Eventually you'll find your own way of recognition. The most important for me is that i learned a lot about the movement on the cube by trying to observe what is hapenning during whole faze of each oll. So i find them very usefull for other algorithms.
The time you need to decide about last f2l insert is probably the same or longer then recognising and executing longer oll case.
Click to expand...

Your advice is sound. IMO people should learn full OLL rather than relying on edge control and I'd also advise people to learn the dot cases first. However, I'd also suggest avoiding the dot cases using a sledge hammer even if you know the algs... 9 times out of 10 it's going to be faster to do a sledgehammer and solve the adjacent flip OLL.

I think Ben (@bubbagrub) pretty much knows full OLL and his query originally asked whether edge control is worthwhile. If Ben does know the dot cases then I'd suggest a sledge hammer insertion to avoid them but they'll never go away completely as R' F R F' is only a substitute for R U' R'. IMO it's not worth doing a longer alternative to R U R' as you'd be better off with OLL + PLL.

Besides the sledge hammer, I don't think additional edge control is particularly useful unless you can take advantage of the resultant COLL case. OLL + PLL is a great approach to the LL which will typically outperform EOLS + OCLL + PLL. However, fast EOLS + COLL + EPLL is typically better than OLL + PLL during 2H solves and almost always better during OH / big cube solves.

My advice: Learn PLL then OLL then COLL then the good EOLS cases :)


mark49152 said:
The thing I can't grasp about skewb is that half the pieces are affected by each move. I don't have any other puzzles like that and am struggling to figure it out intuitively because it behaves so differently.
Click to expand...

It's a weird puzzle and it moves in mysterious ways! See what triple sledgehammer does then try to work out a method.

You'll probably come up with the same method as mine... inefficient but a "self discovery".
 
@mark49152 Skewb is great fun -- I recommend it. My mind is blown that you figured out the curvy copter intuitively -- I tried for ages and got nowhere. That polish fingertrick that h2f shared is definitely a good way to go, once you know how to solve it. But if you manage to figure out how to solve it yourself, intuitively, that'll be very impressive! :-)

@Logiqx, @mitja -- sounds like good advice. Thanks! And yes, as you say, I know pretty much all of OLL, including all the dot cases, but I do find the dot cases awkward and slow -- actually they tend to take me longer to recognise cases than other OLLs, as well as slower execution, for some reason.
 
kbrune said:
I just picked up my new Galaxy S7 today! Now I have to go get all of my apps again. What apps do you all use for timing solves on your phone?
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I use plusTimer too but quite like Nano Timer. I've also just got ChronoTimer as it has corners only scrambles which I use for comms practice.

You don't get to where I am by sharing all your secrets @pipkiksass!
 
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