Older cubers discussions

Shaky Hands said:
The Sune chat reminds me of this video of Breandan:

Click to expand...

Aw... now I feel sad at how slow I am at Sune / Anti-Sune. ;)

Oddly enough, I don't seem to be any faster at either of them when I've always assumed that my anti-Sune was fastest.

One handed is a different matter entirely. Without timing, I know my RFAS + RBS are faster than RFS + RBAS.

mark49152 said:
Does anyone know this guy? He's a cuber in his 40s and apparently he was at UKC 2015 and 2016, and Euros, but I don't think he competed because I can't find a WCA ID for him.

http://speedcubing-for-olds.blogspot.co.uk
Click to expand...

I spoke to a guy who was competing and had a son competing as well. I didn't ask his name but I think he may have been Ian Gerleman.

https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2015GERL02

I'm sure we must have all seen speedcubing-for-olds and come to think about it, I may have been standing next to him and chatted during the Q+A at UKC 2015. He fits the description of an older cuber who didn't actually compete.

Edit: Maybe someone should make contact via his blog and suggest he joins this thread. ;)
 
I think I know who it is but won't say his name in case he wants his blog to stay anonymous (it's not Ian G). I talked with him briefly at North London. His son competes, but he himself only competes at comps that aren't oversubscribed because he doesn't like to take places from the kids.
 
So I did lots of 3x3 today (no new OLLs, but I'm GOING to do some tonight...), and had a massive run of 16s and 17s - Ao12 was sub-18 for about 30 solves, which was great. I thought "why not try to get some PBs", but single Ao5 and Ao12 are 2 years old and won't come easy. I did, however, set PBs for Ao100, and 1000, and feel that (once warmed up) I'm now definitely sub-20. I may not be faster than I used to be, but I'm definitely more consistent.

I can see how the young kids who have countless hours to practice get fast so quick. When I first started cubing it took me a LONG time to get from sup-21 to sub-19; this time, with a great deal more time on my hands, it's only taken 7 weeks.

Ao1000 - 19:90 (N.B. this running average has been going for over a month, some of the solves are very old)
Ao100 - 18.89
Ao50 - 18.26 (17.92 is PB, from 2014)

The Ao50 only had 10 sup-20 solves in it, a couple of 14s, oddly no 15s, 13x16s, 13x17s, 4x18s, 8x19s. No PLL skips, one OLL skip, which I didn't take great advantage of (17.xy). Most of the 20s were fails at new(ish) OLLs, or just general fails of some description!

Generated By csTimer on 2016-11-24
avg of 50: 18.26

Time List:
1. 16.86 F B2 D' R2 B2 D2 B2 U' B2 R2 U2 B L R B' D R B L2 B
2. 19.06 L U2 L2 B2 D2 F R2 U2 L2 U2 B D' F D2 L' U F2 L2 F2 L
3. (14.85) D2 F' D2 B2 F' R2 F D2 U2 F' D2 U' L D' F' D2 L' U' R U B'
4. 16.82 L2 D2 F2 R2 U2 R2 D R2 U R2 U' R' F' D' B D' L' B2 D2 B2 L'
5. 19.62 B' U2 F2 U2 B2 U' L2 D2 U F R2 B2 F' U L' D L' D
6. (25.13) D R2 B2 F2 D2 R F2 D2 R B2 L' B' U2 L2 F' U R' B U
7. (14.64) D L2 F2 U2 R2 B2 U L2 U B2 U' L D' L2 B F' L U F D U2
8. 20.51 U R2 F2 D' L2 U F2 R2 F2 L' D' B R D2 L' D B' R D'
9. 19.87 B2 L2 U2 L2 D2 B2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 L B2 F' D2 L F' D2 U2 R2 B
10. 19.68 D2 L U2 L D2 L2 F2 L' D2 B' L2 F' L D2 B2 R B2 L U'
11. 21.53 L2 B' U2 B' L2 U2 B R2 D2 B2 D F' R' D U' L D' F L2 B
12. 17.39 U2 B2 D2 R' U2 R' D2 L2 F2 L' F D R2 F' D L F2 L D'
13. 19.47 B D2 R2 D2 L2 U2 B L2 R2 U2 F' D' R2 B' U' F' D' U' R U' B2
14. 16.84 B' R2 U2 B2 R2 D2 R' U2 R2 U2 R' U2 F' D R' F' L' R2 F R2 U'
15. 16.60 D R' U' F U' D B' D2 R F2 L2 D2 L2 U R2 U' B2 R2 D2 R2 L'
16. 20.99 U2 R2 D L2 B2 D' R2 D R2 U B2 F D2 U B2 F2 R D2 F' L2 U'
17. 19.45 B' R L2 F' L' B' D R' B' U2 R F2 R F2 R2 D2 R' B2 R
18. (16.09) F' L2 B2 R2 D F2 U' L2 B2 U' F2 L2 F R2 B' L' B' D L2 U2
19. 18.39 F2 R' L D R' F D' L D R2 F2 R' F2 R2 U2 R' F2 D2 R' B2
20. 19.44 D' B2 U2 L2 U' L2 B2 U2 F2 D F2 B U' L' F2 D2 L B2 F' D' L'
21. 17.27 D' F2 D B2 F2 L2 U F2 L2 D B2 R' U' F2 D' R' D L' U2 B R
22. 17.75 B2 D2 R2 D' R2 B2 U2 B2 U L2 F2 B D L' U F2 L2 B L' F U2
23. 16.72 R B2 F2 U2 F2 L2 D B2 L2 U B2 U R F2 R' B R' U2 F2 D' U'
24. 16.44 U' F' D2 B2 R2 F' D2 U2 R2 B' U2 B2 L' U F D L U' L2 R' U2
25. 17.77 B R D' L2 F R2 B' F2 R' D2 R' U2 B2 L F2 R' B2 L' D
26. 17.88 B2 R2 D2 L2 B U2 B D2 U2 R2 F' D' U R2 F' L D2 U2 F2 L D'
27. 16.54 B U2 B2 U2 L2 B L2 F R2 B' D2 R U B2 U' F' R2 B2 L D U2
28. 18.97 L2 D2 B R2 F2 D2 U2 R2 F2 D2 B' L' U' R' D F2 R2 B D R B2
29. 17.92 L' D' B2 L2 B2 R2 U' B2 D2 R2 F2 B' R U2 F2 R2 U L R' U
30. 20.42 U B2 L2 D L2 D' B2 F2 D2 L2 B2 R' D R2 D2 B L' R2 U2 R' B
31. 17.51 L2 U2 L' D2 F2 D2 B2 L' F2 R F2 U' R' F L2 U' B2 F' D' U B'
32. 16.34 F' D2 F2 D' L2 D2 F' B2 R F2 B2 R2 U F2 D L2 D R2 B2 L2
33. 17.99 D L2 F2 U R2 B2 U' F2 D U F2 B' D L' F L U2 B D' R U2
34. 16.22 F2 U2 R F2 L2 U2 F2 L D2 U2 R' U' B R D' B2 F L2 D2 U
35. 16.89 D U2 R2 B2 R2 F2 R2 D2 F2 R2 U2 B U R2 D' B' F2 R' D' R F
36. (23.12) F2 U2 L2 U' L2 F2 U F2 U2 L2 U' L U B2 L R2 B' R F' R2 D2
37. 19.89 R2 U2 B2 L' U2 F2 L' F2 L' R' D L' F' D' F U' L R2 U F'
38. 17.92 L' D B2 D' F2 R2 B2 D2 F2 D' U' F' R U2 B' L2 F2 R U B'
39. 20.63 U' B2 L2 D L2 R2 U B2 U L2 B R F2 U2 L B U' L' B2 U' B
40. 18.37 B' L2 B2 L' F2 U2 R F2 L2 B2 R' F2 D U R' U' B2 L2 B' F' L'
41. 20.54 U2 B' U2 L2 F' U2 B' D2 F' R2 B' U' F' D2 F2 L D2 U' B L' F'
42. 20.11 F' L' U2 F2 D2 B2 U2 R2 B2 L U2 R D U2 B' U F' L2 F D' F'
43. 16.66 R' B2 D2 R2 D B2 U' B2 F2 D' L2 R' B R F2 D' L' B' D' F2
44. 18.84 R2 F' U2 B2 R2 B2 F' D2 F L2 D2 L U F' U2 L F' R2 U' R2
45. 17.08 L F2 D2 R' U2 L' F2 U2 L U2 R' D' L' R2 D2 B' U' L2 D2 B2
46. 16.44 F L2 B2 F R2 F D2 R2 U2 R2 F2 U L' D B2 L F U B' F' D
47. 17.01 F U2 B2 L2 D U2 L2 U' F2 U F2 L2 R U2 L' F' D B' D
48. (22.23) L' U2 L' D L' F2 D L' R2 B U2 F' R2 L2 U2 B2 R2 D2
49. 17.37 F2 U2 R2 D2 U2 B U2 F2 L2 B' D2 L U2 R U R' B U2 F' D' R2
50. 17.29 U F2 D' R2 D L2 U F2 U' B2 U2 L' R U R D B' U B R' F2
 
@pipkiksass You are already faster than I am... and in 7 weeks :(
Regarding your question about how we find time to practise while having also a job, it's easy, I can't find any time. I just practice maybe 30min some days, others nothing... weekends I can usually practise maybe even 1.5h on average, except these two months that I'm busy with work even on weekends.
 
Today I managed to break my 5x5 PB twice in the same Ao5.

2:54.51, 2:33.63, (3:12.05,) 2:50.62, (2:32.29)

I used to always either solve my cross colour or LL colour centres first on 5x5, but I've managed to go fully colour-neutral for centres now, which has helped me take advantage of certain scrambles.

Annoyingly, I needed to 2-look the OLL's for both PB's otherwise I may have hit my target of 2:30. Then I just need to get everything to flow properly in a comp so I can repeat it and record an average. One day it will happen... ;)
 
Shaky Hands said:
Today I managed to break my 5x5 PB twice in the same Ao5.

2:54.51, 2:33.63, (3:12.05,) 2:50.62, (2:32.29)

I used to always either solve my cross colour or LL colour centres first on 5x5, but I've managed to go fully colour-neutral for centres now, which has helped me take advantage of certain scrambles.

Annoyingly, I needed to 2-look the OLL's for both PB's otherwise I may have hit my target of 2:30. Then I just need to get everything to flow properly in a comp so I can repeat it and record an average. One day it will happen... ;)
Click to expand...
I've always been colour neutral on 5x5 centres. It was recommended on a video I saw when learning. Chris Olson's maybe? It's fairly straightforward.

Well done on the PBs.
 
Shaky Hands said:
2:39.xx?
Click to expand...
Yes, thanks!!!!
Continued to Ao12 and got new PB and also improved the Ao5 (and got even closer to PB single):
avg of 5: 2:54.31 = 3:05.43, (2:43.55), (3:09.18), 2:53.93, 2:43.57
avg of 12: 3:02.27 = 2:59.12, 3:05.43, 2:43.55, 3:09.18, 2:53.93, 2:43.57, 3:12.36, 3:12.18, 3:09.54, 3:13.76, (2:41.35), (3:31.75)
 
Shaky Hands said:
@Logiqx - Ian wasn't at UKC this year. Maybe you're recalling the Guildford comp?
Click to expand...

Yes. I meant Guildford.

My cube lessons finished today. The world now has another 6 cubers and they seem to enjoy it. :)

So... I taught 6 guys and my boss can also solve using a corners first method (since 1979) so there are 8 cubers in the room. Apart from at cube competitions it's the highest number of cubers that I've seen in one place. Another team member is on long term sick leave but he can already cube and 2 guys are due back next week so someone can teach them as well.

I'm off work next week so it'll be interesting to see if they have practiced / improved whilst I'm gone.
 
So here's where I find learning OLLs gets interesting - trying to remember algs and recog by shapes, where often the algs require different AUF to their inverses, or to the other cases in the shape "group". How to efficiently get to that level of familiarity with the algs so that you can differentiate between the cases rapidly, get to the right AUF to execute your alg, and execute.

For example, I'm working on Knight moves. What I've done is found algs I like (courtesy of @Logiqx, thanks very much for this).

For anyone who's really bored, I'll take one pair of algs as an example/case study:

This is OLL 16: Anti-Squeegee

v
rUr' (RUR'U') rU'r' = setup, sexy, undo in FR corner

I will use this orientation for both recog and execution.

This is OLL 15: Squeegee
v
r'u'r (R'U'RU) r'Ur = setup, inv. sexy, undo in BR corner

I will use this orientation for both recog and execution.

Recog & Execution

So here's how this will work for me, at least until I get more familiar with these patterns:

  1. I look at the unsolved edges, and notice that the Squeegees have one unsolved edge in a pair of stickers facing outwards, and one on its own. This is as opposed to the Guns (the other pair of Knight Move OLLs), which have two pairs of stickers facing outwards. So if there's one edge sticker facing out in a pair, one alone, it's a squeegee.
  2. Having decided it's a squeegee case, I put the 'handle' (the correctly oriented corner) on the right. My algs for "gun" cases put the 'handle' on the left.
  3. If the 'handle' is at the front, I 'wide' remove the BR F2L pair for setup, inv. sexy, replace; if it's at the back, I 'wide' remove the FR F2L pair for setup, sexy, replace.

And that's it. Boiled down into 3 'steps', which should allow me to recognise these cases and to remember and execute the appropriate algs, hopefully fairly soon.

I think I've always tried to do this kind of visual thing with OLLs. Just wondering what strategies others use/have used for learning OLLs?
 
Last edited:
pipkiksass said:
I think I've always tried to do this kind of visual thing with OLLs. Just wondering what strategies others use/have used for learning OLLs?
Click to expand...
Generally I think I only look at one sticker or feature on the sides, for faster recognition. The less you need to check, the better. With the knight moves, I look at the side sticker touching the corner of the L. If it's the top colour it's a squeegee, if not it's a gun.
 
With all this alg speed I wish I had checked the thread suner! Tried a few anti sunes which is by far my fastest OLL. Seem to be averaging about 0.65ish with a 0.489 single. I did get all my PLLs sub 2 seconds a couple of years ago but not sure if they are still there. Was considering doing a video of my PLLs but I would want to do all my PLLs which must be over 50 with different versions, angles etc.

I hadn't come across that blog before nor remember meeting the guy at UKC but i agree would be great for him to join the thread.

I did receive the latest cube order and filmed it but have not uploaded any video yet but will do in the morning.

Could not sleep tonight so retreated to the kitchen for some 6x6 on the Qiyi WuHua which I am loving more and more every solve. Managed the following which is PB for single, mo3 and ao5

3:32.19, 3:42.58, 3:55.47, 3:56.14, 3:43.87

Single PB: 3:32.19 (Panicked and did the wrong U perm so had to do another or would have been sub 3:30!
mo3 PB: 3:43.41
ao5 PB: 3:47.30

The Qiyi is getting better and better, what an awesome cube and whilst the Weishi has arrived and will be on the unboxing video I will upload it is a black cube so my recognition is bad and times slow on it but it does have promise. That said it is going to take a lot to dislodge the WuHua from main 6x6 status.

Been a very stressed week for me with the redundancy threat but had a consultation meeting with my employers yesterday and they have offered a very favorable redundancy package. The sort where we have do some stuff to the house, book a nice holiday, do some day/weekend trips with family and still have enough put by so I would not have to work for a year. I will of course try and get a job as quickly as possible but I think I will accept the deal and look to move forward with my career. If we can speed cube in our 40's guys we can certainly face a job change :)
 
@pglewis - Drilling algs is a great way to improve their speed and improve times. Almost essential in the move from sub 20 to sub 15. Whereas F2L is about look ahead and maintaining a speed to track pieces, LL is all about raw TPS. Whilst not many would necessarily drill sunes, drilling any alg has benefits as it gets your hands used to moving faster. I will try and get all my PLLs on film being sub 2 which is OK for a 15s solver. @Shaky Hands linked a video by the great, ex World Champion Breandan Vallance. The guys amazes me to this day and I feel privileged to talk to him at comps. He posted a video more than 5 years ago of himself doing all PLLs sub 1s!

@Shaky Hands Wow Andy your 5x5 times are coming on great! That on a Qiyi? Go go average a Brum Open buddy ;)

@mafergut - Congratulations on the PBs :) So much 5x5 love today :)

@Logiqx - Luckily being a pusher of algorithms doesn't carry the same stigma or prison sentence mate :D

@mark49152 - Hope you will be able to make Brum but completely understand if you cant mate.
 
Last edited:
Selkie said:
@pglewis - Drilling algs is a great way to improve their speed and improve times. Almost essential in the move from sub 20 to sub 15. Whereas F2L is about look ahead and maintaining a speed to track pieces, LL is all about raw TPS. Whilst not many would necessarily drill sunes, drilling any alg has benefits as it gets your hands used to moving faster. I will try and get all my PLLs on film being sub 2 which is OK for a 15s solver. @Shaky Hands linked a video by the great, ex World Champion Breandan Vallance. The guys amazes me to this day and I feel privileged to talk to him at comps. He posted a video more than 5 years ago of himself doing all PLLs sub 1s!
Click to expand...

Actually, one of the bad habits I have to consciously break is turning too fast in my F2L resulting in the typical stop and start. When I've gotten "in my groove" lately I've at least been slowing down the end of the insert to get a head-start on the next pair. At the same time I've also found a fair number of nice theoretical F2L cases that work fine in slow solves but don't scale up to faster speed and/or cause awkward grip shifts, so I don't need to waste time ingraining a case if it's going to end up a dead-end.

Better lookahead has been teasing me this past week, all for the postive. I've been getting some flashes but can't quite call upon it at will just yet. On my better solves I'm getting smoother transitions between cross and F2L and between my LL algs as well, not just my pairs. Another bad habit with my OLLs and PLLs has been closing my eyes to get rid of distractions for the muscle memory to take over. It turns out lookahead works better with my eyes open and slowing down the end of my algs and looking into the next step has been another big help when things are clicking.
 
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