UK Championship 2015

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I do agree that crowning Rob/UK winner is the right thing to do given the competition format. But it is worth giving credit to Ciaran too as the inaccurate of media can ruin a very proud moment. I personally was quite salty that I don't get one of them prizes but then I know I'm not eligible in the case, so I got over it quickly.

Maybe next time we should communicate with the media more before they release the article and stuff?
 
I do agree that crowning Rob/UK winner is the right thing to do given the competition format. But it is worth giving credit to Ciaran too as the inaccurate of media can ruin a very proud moment. I personally was quite salty that I don't get one of them prizes but then I know I'm not eligible in the case, so I got over it quickly.

Maybe next time we should communicate with the media more before they release the article and stuff?
Sorry for stealing silver multi off you!
 
I'm not sure why people feel bitter about not getting UK prizes. This was the UK Championships. I don't know why one would want to win a trophy for another country's national championships...
Every other competition this year was totally nationality-neutral - surely we can have reserve one moment for the National Champions?
It should be considered a privilege for non-UKers to be able to compete officially in the competition at all, because most other competitive hobbies/sports don't allow that.
You don't get Usain Bolt winning the UK Championships 100m. In fact, he's not even allowed to run, let alone win prizes.
We even held an Irish Championships this year, which Ciarán won (along with most other events too). Indeed it had no chance of getting any media attention, but is that really why we compete?!
 
Ok let's clear some things up.

All UK competitions are always open to everyone, at any competition throughout the year, any member of the community can come and compete, regardless of country. That is what the WCA is all about, getting cubing out to as many people as possible, and giving them all an environment to compete in.

However, once every year, it is nice to be able to call someone the "UK Champion" in a certain event. To allow this, we create a UK Championship, where the intent is to crown a UK Champion in each event. However, we still allow everyone to come and compete, because why not? We want to hold a big competition in a great venue and invite overseas competitors to come and compete at our competitions. It is explicitly stated prior to the competition that only UK citizens can win prizes. If you are coming solely for the prizes, you are probably doing the wrong hobby. Most, if not all of you will come to do something you love, break some personal bests, and come and see friends, some of whom you may only see a couple of times a year.

Restricting prizes to the country's championship is not uncommon, and is a choice every country can make. Another great example are things like Asian and European Championships, where people who hold citizenship outside of Asia and Europe respectively can not win prizes. They are still allowed to compete, because we can support them to do so. For example, Noah Arthurs came to the last European Championships and won 4BLD, but he is not the reigning 4BLD European Champion, that title is held by Callum because he was the highest ranking European at the event.

This is how we apply results to the UK Championship. Ciarán, yes you did win the UK Championship 2015, by no means and easy feat, with a really great average in the final. Honestly, congratulations, you do deserve it. However, the title of UK Champion goes to Robert because he was the highest ranking UK citizen. As said before, we allow you to compete because we want the competition to be available to everyone who has the capability to attend, but prizes were explicitly for UK citizens, and so Robert won the 1st place trophy, Sameer 2nd place and Breandan 3rd. As stated before, this is common amongst National championships, and we also choose to do this for one competition a year. If you really have a problem with it then don't come to the UK Championship if you aren't a UK citizen, we hold like 10 other competitions in the year as well where you can win prizes.

As for the specific Ireland/UK situation. I have suggested it before, that we have a UK & Ireland Championship. However we agree now that if Ireland want to have their own championship, they must organise their own. And they have happened! This year an Irish Championship was held and I'm sure many more will happen in the future. The biggest problem in my opinion is that if we held a UK & Ireland Championship, there would be far less incentive to hold competitions in Ireland, and the community could not grow as much.

On the topic of media, we all are aware of the lack of knowledge in cubing that the media has. Why would you start caring about their opinion now? We all know who won, and we all know who the UK Champion is, the media can say what they like to be honest.

There are no plans to change anything with how the UK Championship is run.

TL;DR: Ciarán won, Rob is UK Champion. Prizes are for UK citizens only, that was stated beforehand, it's always been like that and always will be for UKC. Other countries do it, it happens as majors as well.
 
I think BIC would be fine but what if the same thing happened except a french competitor won for example? How should we handle all foreign competitors who actually win an event?
Yeah sorry I was a bit slow, I'll win next year to help you make your point :)

I've always been against allowing foreign people in a national championship (for the same reason Brasil will not compete in the football Euro next year) but now I understand the desire to offer everyone the possibility to attend a great competition (as James explains). And I'm happy I could come last week-end :)

What I would like though, would be to prevent foreigners to take spots in the final. Because I think the UK championship is about crowning the best british speedcuber so the finals (at least) should be like "8 UK competitors + whoever is faster than the slowest of them" instead of "12 competitors". Like we do at Euros. I seems a bit more fair to me (imagine if no UK competitor makes it to the final).

Another option would be to call it UK Open again, treat everyone the same and award an extra "UK champion" award per event.
 
At European Championships, the finals are the top 12 Europeans + any non-Europeans that come in the top 12. Those non-Europeans compete first as they earned their spot in the finals (And regulations prevent us just completely cutting them from the round). At this UKC we couldn't really allow for more competitors in the final round due to time restraints, but it was clear beforehand that prizes were for UK citizens only and those non-UK competitors did compete first in the same way.
 
OK it's time for me to say something then. I want to make it clear to everyone, I completely understand why I don't get a trophy, I understand why I was one of the first people to go in the final, I understand why once a year there should be a comp the UK can have in order to crown their champion, hell Ireland done it this year. I organized Irish champs with Dan, the Irish champion was crowned(me), and no person that wasn't from Ireland got a prize, because it was stated on the Irish champs wca page that no person not from Ireland could get a prize. Obviously UK champs is on a much bigger scale to Irish champs, but the same premise still applies, imagine if Tao didn't change nationalities and went to Irish champs as a Chinese competitor, and he beat me in the final, would we have been having this exact same debate a few months ago? really the only thing that I don't understand about this is why I, and people of other nationalities weren't included in the ukca report, but that's besides the point.

We all know I won, beating second place Rob by almost an entire second, and now we all know Rob is crowned UK champion not me, because that's the whole point on the competition, the same way the point of Irish champs was to crown the Irish champion. I'll be honest, am I bothered by the media reports saying Rob won? yes. Am I bothered that in the media someone else is getting credit for winning a comp that I won? yes. Does this take away from Rob being UK champion? no. why? because we have to be the bigger people and realise that's what the media does, it sucks I know but my achievement is still recognised by the most important people in cubing, other cubers.

Congratulations to Rob on becoming the UK champion! Congratulations to me on winning the biggest competition I've ever been to! now lets stop letting this discussion spoil what was one of the most beautiful weekends in the history of UK cubing.
 

I'm quoting this to point out that we really can't rely on what the media reports about cubing.

I'm sorry you didn't get a mention Ciarán but it's on another level to not being able to distinguish who was the UK Champion.

The media is unlikely to change so let's just continue to not care and hope that as a result of their coverage that some more people find a fun hobby and make good friends and memories as a result.
 
If you're looking for recognition, surely the most important recognition is from your peers in the cubing community? All of whom recognise Rob as the UK champ, and Ciarán as the competition winner.
UKC.png
If I were you, Ciarán, this would mean more to me than any ******** media report.
 
really the only thing that I don't understand about this is why I, and people of other nationalities weren't included in the ukca report, but that's besides the point.
Interesting - hadn't caught on to that point before. You should get angry at whoever wrote that report. Oops sorry. You did at least get an honorable mention in the 3x3 section :/

May I just say that during the weekend, I really didn't consider myself as competing against you or the other non-UKs. During the rounds my mindset was only on comparing to other UKers because that's what was important to me at that comp. From your point of view of course you're trying to beat everyone, but just though I'd put forward the perspective of a UKer.

Getting angry at the media is something that millions of people do every day. I'm sure there are hundreds every day who do so because they are not being credited correctly. The primary aim of the media here is trying to generate attention - correctly crediting the most worthy achievements does not cross their minds. The story for them is not that an Irish competitor got an 8.45(!) average, but that a geeky comp happened that crowned a UK Champion - that's by far and away the story that will generate interest. I think we can agree on their motives here, whether or not they are correct. There is unfortunately pretty much nothing we can do to alter their mindset, no matter what we say in interviews or on our online forums/reports so we should just accept that and know that our peers are the ones who can figure out what is worthy of high regard.

About the number of people in the finals (12 total, including non-UK), I did think again during the comp about this, but figured that since we'd get enough UKers in the final (we weren't going to be outnumbered or anything!) the qualifying criteria was ok.
I wouldn't mind changing it to another criteria next year though - it's not something I feel strongly on.
- 8/10/12 UK and any others in between.
- 12 total + add more if there aren't 8/10 UK in the top 12.
 
I thought 12 people was plenty for a final and as long as there are enough Brits to make podiums competitive (at least 6) then you have a decent show.

Well done on running a fantastic competition. You've got me hooked and I'm now determined to do better.

DYK, I went to bed at midnight on the Saturday night on the 6th floor of the hotel and I could hear you guys on the street below on your way out for another 6 hours of celebrations. How do you do it?
 
Very sad that this debate even happened...

I think people are letting the scale and quality of the competition overshadow the fact that this is our single competition per year that excludes internationals from prize winning, and that Ireland has it's own championship with the exact same arrangement.
 
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