Older cubers discussions

[EvilGnome6]

A 4.80s 2x2 single, which is pretty good for me. I use CLL but I'm not very fast because my TPS and recognition are slow and that's what 2x2 is all about. Cube used was a MoYu LingPo.

 

[MarcelP]

Congrats on some great competition results guys!

I caught a nice Ao5 on camera today... slowest solve was 17.05.

Awesome! You will be officialy faster soon What is that J-perm you used at 2:21? That looked insane fast.

A 4.80s 2x2 single, which is pretty good for me. I use CLL but I'm not very fast because my TPS and recognition are slow and that's what 2x2 is all about. Cube used was a MoYu LingPo.

Nice! I am too lazy to learn CLL. What's with all those 3x3's?

 

[Logiqx]

Awesome! You will be officialy faster soon What is that J-perm you used at 2:21? That looked insane fast.

I use the most common Jb:

R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R'

It's really a conjugated T-perm but the last 9 moves cancel... cool how it ends up shorter than the original!

R U R' F' (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F') F R U' R'

 

[muchacho]

A 4.80s 2x2 single, which is pretty good for me. I use CLL but I'm not very fast because my TPS and recognition are slow and that's what 2x2 is all about. Cube used was a MoYu LingPo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs_UsO56UMo

That cube looks good, no internal catches? I don't use mine because of that, do you think it may improve if I use it more, or lube it, or use lighter tensions?


Are you into multi blind or you bought all those cubes in case they stop selling them?

 

[mafergut]

A 4.80s 2x2 single, which is pretty good for me. I use CLL but I'm not very fast because my TPS and recognition are slow and that's what 2x2 is all about. Cube used was a MoYu LingPo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs_UsO56UMo

For me it looks very nice. Can you post the scramble and your solution? TBH I can't follow the way you solve the botton layer (I assume you have to do a layer, right? I mean you only use CLL and not EG-1/EG-2). I'm stuck with Ortega and sub-5 or sub-4 are very rare. Sub-3 are non-existent for now

EDIT: And I agree, that LingPo looks great. Much better than mine.

I use the most common Jb:

R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R'

It's really a conjugated T-perm but the last 9 moves cancel... cool how it ends up shorter than the original!

R U R' F' (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F') F R U' R'

I also use that Jb perm. It felt the easier to learn as it is just a T-perm with the last 4 moves at the beginning.
But whether it is shorter than the original or not depends on the AUF needed. If you start with the correct AUF already, you still need that last U' to complete the cube.

 

[Logiqx]

I also use that Jb perm. It felt the easier to learn as it is just a T-perm with the last 4 moves at the beginning.
But whether it is shorter than the original or not depends on the AUF needed. If you start with the correct AUF already, you still need that last U' to complete the cube.

I consider it an interesting coincidence that the last moves are moved to the beginning. T-perm itself is just two of the easiest OLLs with a cancellation in the middle. This Jb is just a conjugate of the T-perm where R U R' F' is the setup and the end has a lucky cancellation.

I agree... Jb is actually the same length as T when you retain the AUF but I find it interesting that after adding 8 moves for the conjugation and applying cancellations it ends up back at the length of the original T-perm.

I worked out a load of my own PLLs using this same principle quite some time back but none of them had the benefit of such nice cancellations. It was a fun exercise but my algs were slower than the "standard" PLLs!

Edit: The same logic also applies... i.e. T-perm being a conjugate of Jb-perm. Which came first... the chicken or the egg, lol.

 

[mafergut]

I consider it an interesting coincidence that the last moves are moved to the beginning. T-perm itself is just two of the easiest OLLs with a cancellation in the middle. This Jb is just a conjugate of the T-perm where R U R' F' is the setup and the end has a lucky cancellation.

I agree... Jb is actually the same length as T when you retain the AUF but I find it interesting that after adding 8 moves for the conjugation and applying cancellations it ends up back at the length of the original T-perm.

I worked out a load of my own PLLs using this same principle quite some time back but none of them had the benefit of such nice cancellations. It was a fun exercise but my algs were slower than the "standard" PLLs!

Edit: The same logic also applies... i.e. T-perm being a conjugate of Jb-perm. Which came first... the chicken or the egg, lol.

Yes! I like all this stuff about combining OLLs and also other semi-algs or triggers, like sexy, sledge, etc. I also like the ideas of setups / conjugates, mirrors, reverses... I just don't have the time to get deeper into cubing theory but it looks like you know a load of all this stuff.

Are you into multi blind or you bought all those cubes in case they stop selling them?

By the looks of it he's got at least 15 Guanlongs on there, right? Maybe he's preparing for a 15/15 MBLD attempt, yeah! 15 cubes are just too few to be using them for a mosaic and, you know, you'll need at least 16 for a 12x12 pixel art set-up

 

[cubesp]

Or, all these guanlongs are a low cost speedcube security guard... If there are children around (friend kids, son's school frientro,...) you can let them play with guanlong without testing your meiying-gans-hualong-...
And you can use guanlongs as gift too, so you can evangelize to the cube!!

Yes, you can use guanlongs for multiplied..

 

[h2f]

What do you use for Ja perm? I know few algs - for 2H for OH, but couldnt find good one and decided for mirror of Jb perm R U R' F' ...: L' U' L F L' U' L U L F' L2 U L.

 

[Logiqx]

What do you use for Ja perm? I know few algs - for 2H for OH, but couldnt find good one and decided for mirror of Jb perm R U R' F' ...: L' U' L F L' U' L U L F' L2 U L.

2H: R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L
OH: R' U2 R U R' U2 L U' R U L' (RBAS into Niklas with cancellation)

I tend to mirror my LL algs front-back rather than left-right. My OH Ja is the front-back mirror of my OH Jb. I actually use a z and z' whilst executing the end of my OH Ja + Jb.

 

[h2f]

For OH I use the sam alg. But for 2H I often used the one you wrote, but I had problem with fingertricking last 3 moves and AUF if necessery.

 

[EvilGnome6]

That cube looks good, no internal catches? I don't use mine because of that, do you think it may improve if I use it more, or lube it, or use lighter tensions?

I do get some internal catching with the LingPo but it diminishes over time. My tensions are actually rather tight and I sparingly lube the pieces with Traxxas 50K or 10K. Other than that, it's a lot of solves and staying accurate rather than relying on corner cutting.

Are you into multi blind or you bought all those cubes in case they stop selling them?

I bought 50 GuanLongs last week to have a bunch of cheap cubes to hand out during Halloween, Holidays and set up a GuanLong Challenge at the competition I'm organizing. They were sitting on the kitchen counter so I though I'd build a little wall as a backdrop for the video.

PS. I can't do blind. I learned OP corners and had a few 2x2 successes but found it a tedious skill to practice. I like listening to podcasts or music while I'm cubing and BLD requires too much focus.

 

[EvilGnome6]

For me it looks very nice. Can you post the scramble and your solution? TBH I can't follow the way you solve the botton layer (I assume you have to do a layer, right? I mean you only use CLL and not EG-1/EG-2). I'm stuck with Ortega and sub-5 or sub-4 are very rare. Sub-3 are non-existent for now

EDIT: And I agree, that LingPo looks great. Much better than mine.

Oh, that's a good idea. I'll work on that in a bit. Yes, CLL requires a layer and in fact, I never learned the two PBL algs when I learned Ortega. In general, if you have a bar, you can put it in the D/L position and build the other bar using R and U moves. There are exceptions and I get completely flustered when there isn't a bar at all.

 

[EvilGnome6]

For me it looks very nice. Can you post the scramble and your solution?

Reconstruction

scramble: U B2 U2 B D2 F2 U2 F R2 B' D2 B L B2 F R U R2 D B D (white up, green front)

z' x2 (orient)
U R2 U R U B2 R2 (layer)
U2 (auf)
F R U R' U' R U R' U' F' (cll)

During inspection, I didn't see a complete bar but there was a checkerboard bar to work with. That means if I build the other checkerboard half, I can use (R2) B2 R2 to complete the layer (the first R2 gets canceled out because I place the first bar on the bottom and build the second bar on the top). Once I have the layer, it's just one case to identify and execute.

 

[h2f]

This is the scramble for 2x2? Why is it so long?

 

[EvilGnome6]

This is the scramble for 2x2? Why is it so long?

I accidentally had it set for 3x3 scrambles.

 

[h2f]

Heh. That's logic.

 

[EvilGnome6]

Heh. That's logic.

The funny thing is that I did almost 70 solves and didn't notice the long scrambles. Doing lots of big cubes sort of rots your brain that way.

 

[mafergut]

What do you use for Ja perm? I know few algs - for 2H for OH, but couldnt find good one and decided for mirror of Jb perm R U R' F' ...: L' U' L F L' U' L U L F' L2 U L.

I can do the lefty mirror of both Jb and T perms and I currently use it when I get the Ja correctly set up and AUFed for my left hand. In any other case I orient it like upside down L on the up-right and use this alg:
L' R' U2 R U R' U2 L U' R which, now that I realize, is a y2 mirror for the one Michael just mentioned.
I use this same alg also for OH.

Reconstruction

scramble: U B2 U2 B D2 F2 U2 F R2 B' D2 B L B2 F R U R2 D B D (white up, green front)

z' x2 (orient)
U R2 U R U B2 R2 (layer)
U2 (auf)
F R U R' U' R U R' U' F' (cll)

During inspection, I didn't see a complete bar but there was a checkerboard bar to work with. That means if I build the other checkerboard half, I can use (R2) B2 R2 to complete the layer (the first R2 gets canceled out because I place the first bar on the bottom and build the second bar on the top). Once I have the layer, it's just one case to identify and execute.

Thanks. Now that I think of it, using CLL for 2x2 must develop good skills for 1st layer that I'm not developing as, as an Ortega solver, in fact you try to avoid layers unless stupidly easy, as the PBLs are much easier when you have no layers at all. Funny that my PB singles with "Ortega" are almost always: easy layer + OLL + PBL skip, which would be like a LBL solve. Well, some of them are also, face (with diag swap) + OLL (with diag swap) + R2 B2 R2 (PBL)

I was curious and wanted to see the full reconstruction because:
1) I didn't see well how you did the 1st layer, now I get the final B2 R2, very interesting trick indeed
2) I saw you just finished with the alg I would do for that OLL case which, coincidentally must be the CLL alg for the case you got
So, it in fact could have also been mistaken by a LBL solve with PLL skip

 

[EvilGnome6]

Thanks. Now that I think of it, using CLL for 2x2 must develop good skills for 1st layer

Building the first layer has been the most difficult part to learn, especially since I don't have great spatial reasoning. I'm getting better and I feel like that solve was a good example of planning one out when it was more than just a 2 or 3 move layer.

So, it in fact could have been mistaken by a LBL solve with PLL skip

That's what every CLL solve actually is. You just have to learn 6 OLL algorithms for each case and apply the right one to force a PLL skip. [emoji1]