[NAR] Lucas Etter - 7.13 Rubik's Cube Average

[G2013]

Ah, better that way... Idk, he's a delegate >.< (Am I right?)

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

Ah, better that way... Idk, he's a delegate >.< (Am I right?)

yeah. but hes also a trol.

 

[Chree]

sarcasm.... its Dene...you can never expect a serious post.

But you can typically expect a good point.

 

[Coolster01]

nice CGI Lucas! you almost fooled me.

Well, I hate to be the party pooper, but his last scramble was from group D, whereas all of his others were from group C.

So technically he was hiding something, but scrambles from the incorrect group have already been ruled okay, I'm pretty sure.

 

[Skullush]

Well, I hate to be the party pooper, but his last scramble was from group D, whereas all of his others were from group C.

So technically he was hiding something, but scrambles from the incorrect group have already been ruled okay, I'm pretty sure.

when the next group is called up, the scramblers start using the next set of scrambles. it's common that there's still one or two competitors from the previous group that still have a few solves left, and once the next group is called, their last few scrambles will be from the current group. it's not a problem

 

[Coolster01]

when the next group is called up, the scramblers start using the next set of scrambles. it's common that there's still one or two competitors from the previous group that still have a few solves left, and once the next group is called, their last few scrambles will be from the current group. it's not a problem

Okay, good. If only Lucas knew this, he would've uploaded it a month earlier.

 

[Kian]

when the next group is called up, the scramblers start using the next set of scrambles. it's common that there's still one or two competitors from the previous group that still have a few solves left, and once the next group is called, their last few scrambles will be from the current group. it's not a problem

Yeah, this happens at basically every competition with heats and is totally fine.

 

[Dene]

But you can typically expect a good point.

So the big question is, did everyone learn their lesson?

#NotATroll
#PostPride

 

[Goosly]

Yeah, this happens at basically every competition with heats and is totally fine.

How is it totally fine? (This average is legit, I won't argue that)
The last scramble of group C could've been easier (the definition of 'easier scramble' is irrelevant, let's just assume that some scrambles are easier than others) than the last scramble of group D, giving him an unfair disadvantage. At competitions where I scrambled, we always make sure competitors who are doing their last solves get the scrambles from the correct group and I never even considered using the next scramblesheet.

 

[JustinTimeCuber]

How is it totally fine? (This average is legit, I won't argue that)
The last scramble of group C could've been easier (the definition of 'easier scramble' is irrelevant, let's just assume that some scrambles are easier than others) than the last scramble of group D, giving him an unfair disadvantage. At competitions where I scrambled, we always make sure competitors who are doing their last solves get the scrambles from the correct group and I never even considered using the next scramblesheet.

Imagine dealing out 10 cards into 2 piles. Is it more likely that one of your cards is the ace of diamonds if you first switch two of the cards?

 

[Kian]

How is it totally fine? (This average is legit, I won't argue that)
The last scramble of group C could've been easier (the definition of 'easier scramble' is irrelevant, let's just assume that some scrambles are easier than others) than the last scramble of group D, giving him an unfair disadvantage. At competitions where I scrambled, we always make sure competitors who are doing their last solves get the scrambles from the correct group and I never even considered using the next scramblesheet.

It's totally fine because everyone is getting 5 randomly generated scrambles. If it's a final and you're not doing heats, then of course everyone should have the same scrambles, but since in a round with heats you've already established that competitors don't need to have the same scrambles it is entirely meaningless which scrambles from which heats someone gets.

We do this because it allows the flow from one heat to another to be seamless and without creating any advantage. Yes, one scramble could be easier, but that's entirely random, just like which scrambles go with which heat.

 

[Goosly]

(...) but since in a round with heats you've already established that competitors don't need to have the same scrambles it is entirely meaningless which scrambles from which heats someone gets.

I disagree. Let's say cubers A and B are both top cubers, competing in the same heat. That heat is supposed to use scramblesheet C. Cuber A gets WR on solve 5, but for some reason B gets his last solve a bit later, and the next sheet is already in use, with a 'worse' scramble.
That would be fine? Maybe our local habbits are different, but this just seems extremely weird to me.

 

[Myachii]

I disagree. Let's say cubers A and B are both top cubers, competing in the same heat. That heat is supposed to use scramblesheet C. Cuber A gets WR on solve 5, but for some reason B gets his last solve a bit later, and the next sheet is already in use, with a 'worse' scramble.
That would be fine? Maybe our local habbits are different, but this just seems extremely weird to me.

To be honest, I agree. And although it was out of Lucas' control, the one bad move he made was refusing to upload the video in case his NAR was revoked (IF this was the reason he didn't upload it earlier)

But considering the scramble gave him his second fastest time, this should definitely be discussed by the board. What is the point of having rules and group systems if every time they go wrong they ignore the rule?

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

To be honest, I agree. And although it was out of Lucas' control, the one bad move he made was refusing to upload the video in case his NAR was revoked (IF this was the reason he didn't upload it earlier)

But considering the scramble gave him his second fastest time, this should definitely be discussed by the board. What is the point of having rules and group systems if every time they go wrong they ignore the rule?

The main reason this is allowed is that the scrambles in heats are in arbitrary order. The delegate selecting them doesnt go through and find some easy scrambles for A and some easy ones for B. They're completely random. The delegate could have easily selected scramble 5 for A instead of B.

 

[Bindedsa]

I disagree. Let's say cubers A and B are both top cubers, competing in the same heat. That heat is supposed to use scramblesheet C. Cuber A gets WR on solve 5, but for some reason B gets his last solve a bit later, and the next sheet is already in use, with a 'worse' scramble.
That would be fine? Maybe our local habbits are different, but this just seems extremely weird to me.

But it's totally fine if they are in different heats and one of misses out on WR scrambles for different arbitrary reasons?

 

[Myachii]

The main reason this is allowed is that the scrambles in heats are in arbitrary order. The delegate selecting them doesnt go through and find some easy scrambles for A and some easy ones for B. They're completely random. The delegate could have easily selected scramble 5 for A instead of B.

But why have a rule if it's just gonna be ignored?

And it really doesn't help if the solver is uncooperative. In cases like Rami's .58 and Feliks' 6.88, they were the ones to investigate and to the delegate about the issue. They were willing to lose their records. In this case it just appears that Lucas realised what happened and decided not to report it in fear of losing his record.

Take everything I say with a pinch of salt, it's still unclear as to the reasons why Lucas left it this late to upload the video. I'm just forming an opinion based on what the situation appears to be.

 

[Kit Clement]

But why have a rule if it's just gonna be ignored?

And it really doesn't help if the solver is uncooperative. In cases like Rami's .58 and Feliks' 6.88, they were the ones to investigate and to the delegate about the issue. They were willing to lose their records. In this case it just appears that Lucas realised what happened and decided not to report it in fear of losing his record.

Take everything I say with a pinch of salt, it's still unclear as to the reasons why Lucas left it this late to upload the video. I'm just forming an opinion based on what the situation appears to be.

Lucas talked to me a couple weeks ago asking about the 5th solve, and I told him it was fine. Not sure what caused the delay in uploading from then until now. Also, what explicit regulation do you believe is being ignored by this?

 

[JustinTimeCuber]

What if he would have gotten a 5.02 on the scramble that he didn't do? It could have been an advantage to get the other scramble, but it was equally likely to be a disadvantage.

 

[Kian]

I disagree. Let's say cubers A and B are both top cubers, competing in the same heat. That heat is supposed to use scramblesheet C. Cuber A gets WR on solve 5, but for some reason B gets his last solve a bit later, and the next sheet is already in use, with a 'worse' scramble.
That would be fine? Maybe our local habbits are different, but this just seems extremely weird to me.

But it's all arbitrary. The scrambles, before we see them, are essentially the same (in that they are random and acceptable states). This is further evidenced by our acceptance of groups at all. If we didn't believe they were fair on a fundamental level, we wouldn't allow it. The heats are also arbitrary.

Regardless, it's an issue of logistics. Dealing with finishing an entire heat before starting another would be prohibitive in very large competitions. If it weren't for issues of logistics we wouldn't be allowing groups at all.

As for the guy who says the board should look at this, that's completely off base. This is not only not his fault, it's entirely within the rules.

 

[Julian]

But it's all arbitrary. The scrambles, before we see them, are essentially the same (in that they are random and acceptable states). This is further evidenced by our acceptance of groups at all. If we didn't believe they were fair on a fundamental level, we wouldn't allow it. The heats are also arbitrary.

Regardless, it's an issue of logistics. Dealing with finishing an entire heat before starting another would be prohibitive in very large competitions. If it weren't for issues of logistics we wouldn't be allowing groups at all.

As for the guy who says the board should look at this, that's completely off base. This is not only not his fault, it's entirely within the rules.

Agree totally. Pushing this, though, does this mean that (filter-legal) misscrambles are also always ok?