[WR] Feliks Zemdegs 3x3 OH single 6.88

[TimMc]

but I don't check every single sticker.

Think of it as an investment... a few extra seconds spent checking a scramble can save several people hours in figuring out what went wrong and what to do later...

Tim.

 

[tomatotrucks]

Okay, I've been thinking about this case a lot in the past 24 hours, and I think I've come to a good conclusion.

People have been discussing some sort of punishment, but then as others have said, this will lead to other people being reluctant to scramble, and considering most scrambling is done by volunteers, this could really hurt the productivity and efficiency of some competitions. I think it would be beneficial not to punish, but rather add a second level of checking to make sure the scramble is 100% correct.

Who would do this checking? The scramblers already have checked, so it can't be them. The runners -- it seems to deviate a bit from the runners job, and obviously the competitors shouldn't be checking the scramble. I think the judges should have some way of checking whether the cube in the box has been scrambled correctly by the scramblers. I don't know how this would be done, however, as the competitors might catch a glimpse of the scrambles.

There could also be added another role in the running of the competition, a "checker", at the scrambling table, whose job is solely to check cubes, and resolve them if they were scrambled incorrectly.

 

[mafergut]

Sorry I created a thread in the WR/CR/NR thread for this just as I spotted it today in cubecomps. Seeing that it is not official I will now delete the thread and let Faz himself create it anew when hopefully the WR is accepted.

GJ with or without misscrable. And please, stop being mean with the scrambler, it could have been you.

EDIT: Some admin must have deleted it already. Thanks and apologies again!!!!

 

[cashis]

misscrambles happen. sucks it happened on a WR solve, but chill out. Sure, the scrambler didnt do his job, but we all make mistakes and you need to quit being so harsh. Even at US nationals, I'm sure there was at least one cube that was misscrambled. Its unpreventable.

 

[EpiCuber7]

Hmm okay so scrambler was insistent that the cube was scrambled correctly - the video footage indicates the scramble was wrong.

well it was a 3 move cross and that doesn't sound very WCA-y, maybe just a rare scramble???

 

[irontwig]

According to Vandenbergh you'll have a <4 move cross 4.74% of the time (and <5 a whopping 29.17), so it's not super rare.

http://www.cubezone.be/crossstudy.html

 

[mDiPalma]

if the mis-scramble was significantly easier than the intended scramble,

then "rescramble" or "DNF," in my opinion.

 

[moralsh]

The original scramble has a 4 move white cross with an obvious first pair, Yellow is also quite easy (5 moves). I insist this solve might be validated or not, but luck or easyness of the solve can't be used as motives, as theese two are very sujective.

About checking scrambles, I sometimes scramble my own cube and check the scambles against it, it works for finals but not for other rounds, as you are often scrambling different scrambles at the same time. Other easy check is to check all the corners, which is relatively fast and detects most misscrambles.

 

[Kyle™]

As someone mentioned before, as long as the scramble has an optimal solution of (13+?) then it should stick.
This should be the only criteria in my opinion.
Just to play devil's advocate, there is one question I have to ask.
No other competitor had the opportunity to try this scramble, so wouldn't this be considered an 'advantage', since one competitor receives the unintentional benefit of a scramble that would yield a record breaking result?

 

[mafergut]

As someone mentioned before, as long as the scramble has an optimal solution of (13+?) then it should stick.
This should be the only criteria in my opinion.
Just to play devil's advocate, there is one question I have to ask.
No other competitor had the opportunity to try this scramble, so wouldn't this be considered an 'advantage', since one competitor receives the unintentional benefit of a scramble that would yield a record breaking result?

That argument could be reasonably applied to invalidate the podium of the competition but as for the WR it is irrelevant in my opinion.

 

[EMI]

Just to play devil's advocate, there is one question I have to ask.
No other competitor had the opportunity to try this scramble, so wouldn't this be considered an 'advantage', since one competitor receives the unintentional benefit of a scramble that would yield a record breaking result?

Well, that's the point.

BTW, amazing job with the solve Faz, I used to think my 7.x 2H single was good, but this ...

 

[irontwig]

As someone mentioned before, as long as the scramble has an optimal solution of (13+?) then it should stick.

Devil's advocate: So having the F2L already solved is a valid scramble?

 

[mDiPalma]

Devil's advocate: So having the F2L already solved is a valid scramble?

and E/F/N/R/V/Y-perms are valid scrambles?

typical WCA...

 

[Laura O]

if the mis-scramble was significantly easier than the intended scramble,

then "rescramble" or "DNF," in my opinion.

You forgot to explain how you can measure how easy a valid scramble is...

Just to play devil's advocate, there is one question I have to ask.
No other competitor had the opportunity to try this scramble, so wouldn't this be considered an 'advantage', since one competitor receives the unintentional benefit of a scramble that would yield a record breaking result?

Well, isn't it an disadvantage if everyone received the original scramble, but one competitor didn't?

 

[Kyle™]

You forgot to explain how you can measure how easy a valid scramble is...



Well, isn't it an disadvantage if everyone received the original scramble, but one competitor didn't?

If you generalize this statement, I would have have no stance on the issue without more knowledge on the event/scrambles.
Only after seeing the result, I would say that it was an advantage that Feliks received this scramble.
It's reasonable to disagree with me, due to the fact that each competitor has their own approach to each solution.
In the hands of another competitor, this could be a poor scramble. Although, one could argue that the competitor determines the difficulty of the scramble, not the state of the cube, based on the method used.
In that case, Feliks' opinion would weigh heavily on the matter. Similar to the Square-1 record that was forfeited, because the competitor realized it was simple for them. In the hands of another competitor, it may have been difficult if they were a beginner or had a different approach to the solution, resulting in a much slower time. A better comparison could be made, this is all that comes to mind.


To irontwig,
I don't have a good response to this, but I will say that at the very least, all competitors should have the opportunity to solve with the F2L completed in this scenario.
I suppose we would have to follow the rules which include all possibilities for the rules to really be fair, right?
The issue arises when we can't unanimously determine whether there is an unfairness present, so maybe there is no 'fair solution' to this issue.

 

[MrMan]

That, and they're a lot slower than people, except for the REALLY good ones.

But a duo camera that check two side of the scramble would work.
Edit while writing : I don't have much experience with image processing but the colors setting would be hard with all different shades ?

 

[biscuit]

You either DNF every mis-scramble or you let the board decide. There is not really anything else that can happen. If any one can come up with a good solution other than this then I would be very surprised (and happy). I think that there should be something added into the guidelines (not regs) about diffrent procedures that are good to have. I really like the whole scramble checker idea (you have one or more people at the scrambling station checking scrambles before giving it to the runners) These would be dependent on time and how many volunteers you get.

EDIT:When I say let the board decide I am talking about deciding if the scramble is too unfair and anything else that is subjective

 

[quickalt]

But a duo camera that check two side of the scramble would work.
Edit while writing : I don't have much experience with image processing but the colors setting would be hard with all different shades ?

The actual scrambling speed is the issue.

 

[PhillipEspinoza]

Getting off topic, can we take this discussion to another thread? speculating is cool but not when there's nothing else that can come from it besides speculating.

 

[Bunyanderman]

What is cubing with out drama? A lifeless game.