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Older cubers discussions

Old Tom

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Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
187
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Virginia
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2018DOYL02
Progress report on my 3BLD journey: Three weeks after my first "pure" solve, I am making slow progress. Sticking mostly to my plan (sort of) of ignoring speed, trying instead to get consistent. Doing things mostly in sections. Corners are going very well, almost "easy." Edges are currently a real problem, less than 25% success rate. Usually, I don't know which of the many possible errors I have made. Practice! I do this every day, but also get mentally tired, need to back off.

Real progress in that sticker positions are now effortless, mostly. Setups are "familiar", but not yet "automatic", that will come. Both of these advances make for less mental effort, and I am very happy with the improvement there.

I have actually gotten a bit sloppy with my practice sessions. I often watch TV (closed captions) while I do a memo and solve. I interrupt things if the TV (mostly sports and news) gets interesting. This is how I have cubed for 35+ years; it is relaxing and enjoyable!

I am somewhat discouraged that I simply cannot improve finger speed. I have been trying hard to use "finger tricks", but I am just too old, with all sorts of physical and neurological problems that I will not bore you with. I can get under one turn-per-second, but that's about it. Mentally I am ok, but probably slower there also. Since the OP method takes about 340-360 turns, I will need about 5-6 minutes just for execution, with NO hesitations. The usual 10 minute limit at comps will be a major challenge, but possible.

I am having fun with memo and trace. Long, long way to go to get faster, but I really think I can make major advances there. I guess this is a very individual thing, but any tips would be welcome.

But, in particular: I am definitely sticking to letter pairs, but am not sure if it will be effective to mix single-word pairs with two-word pairs. Just as an example, could be anything else: Pair CW. I try for a name first. Takes me too long to find Christopher Walken or Chris Webber (US basketball player). Instead, I can quickly think of CoW, a good mental image. But that's a one-word pair that tends to throw my memo off. Instead, I can almost as quickly think of Clock-Wise, or Counter-Weight, both of which can be worked into good images. Or Cheese-Whiz!

Any advice there? Thanks, and excuse the long post. I figure you have all been where I am now!
 

openseas

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Oct 11, 2015
Messages
425
WCA
2015PARK24
But, in particular: I am definitely sticking to letter pairs, but am not sure if it will be effective to mix single-word pairs with two-word pairs. Just as an example, could be anything else: Pair CW. I try for a name first. Takes me too long to find Christopher Walken or Chris Webber (US basketball player). Instead, I can quickly think of CoW, a good mental image. But that's a one-word pair that tends to throw my memo off. Instead, I can almost as quickly think of Clock-Wise, or Counter-Weight, both of which can be worked into good images. Or Cheese-Whiz!

It is recommended to make images personal. Instead of a random guy Joe, a friend of yours is stronger. A cow is a good one but much better if you have any personal experience with a cow (circumstance or memory). I use Chewie for CW and just memo like audio of “AAARRRGWWWH” :)
 

mark49152

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I am somewhat discouraged that I simply cannot improve finger speed. I have been trying hard to use "finger tricks", but I am just too old, with all sorts of physical and neurological problems that I will not bore you with. I can get under one turn-per-second, but that's about it. Mentally I am ok, but probably slower there also. Since the OP method takes about 340-360 turns, I will need about 5-6 minutes just for execution, with NO hesitations. The usual 10 minute limit at comps will be a major challenge, but possible.
Great that you are making progress and enjoying it. Your turning will speed up gradually in time, just like everybody's, but with your natural limitations you might find move efficiency a more rewarding and interesting long term goal. The Beyer-Hardwick (BH) method uses move-optimal commutators for execution, meaning typically 8-10 moves per letter pair. It's a lot to learn, but hugely interesting because it requires developing a good understanding of how the cube works and it gives many opportunities for studying and strategizing as you develop and organise your own repertoire of commutators.
 

SpartanSailor

Member
Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
730
WCA
2016DUEH02
Progress report on my 3BLD journey: Three weeks after my first "pure" solve, I am making slow progress. Sticking mostly to my plan (sort of) of ignoring speed, trying instead to get consistent. Doing things mostly in sections. Corners are going very well, almost "easy." Edges are currently a real problem, less than 25% success rate. Usually, I don't know which of the many possible errors I have made. Practice! I do this every day, but also get mentally tired, need to back off.

Real progress in that sticker positions are now effortless, mostly. Setups are "familiar", but not yet "automatic", that will come. Both of these advances make for less mental effort, and I am very happy with the improvement there.

I have actually gotten a bit sloppy with my practice sessions. I often watch TV (closed captions) while I do a memo and solve. I interrupt things if the TV (mostly sports and news) gets interesting. This is how I have cubed for 35+ years; it is relaxing and enjoyable!

I am somewhat discouraged that I simply cannot improve finger speed. I have been trying hard to use "finger tricks", but I am just too old, with all sorts of physical and neurological problems that I will not bore you with. I can get under one turn-per-second, but that's about it. Mentally I am ok, but probably slower there also. Since the OP method takes about 340-360 turns, I will need about 5-6 minutes just for execution, with NO hesitations. The usual 10 minute limit at comps will be a major challenge, but possible.

I am having fun with memo and trace. Long, long way to go to get faster, but I really think I can make major advances there. I guess this is a very individual thing, but any tips would be welcome.

But, in particular: I am definitely sticking to letter pairs, but am not sure if it will be effective to mix single-word pairs with two-word pairs. Just as an example, could be anything else: Pair CW. I try for a name first. Takes me too long to find Christopher Walken or Chris Webber (US basketball player). Instead, I can quickly think of CoW, a good mental image. But that's a one-word pair that tends to throw my memo off. Instead, I can almost as quickly think of Clock-Wise, or Counter-Weight, both of which can be worked into good images. Or Cheese-Whiz!

Any advice there? Thanks, and excuse the long post. I figure you have all been where I am now!
Nothing wrong with taking your time and enjoying it.... that’s the goal, right? I still struggle with my edge memo sometimes. Sometimes the scramble is just more difficult for me to get the letter pairs into memory. And getting it right about 1 in 4 attempts is not all that bad anyway. Well done and keep it up!
 

AvGalen

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Just for inspiration about "combining letterpairs":
This is a Japanese song about rock-paper-scissors (rock = Gu, scissors = Choki, paper = Pa). By combining these 3 "shapes" creatively you can get many creations
rock with paper on top = helicopter
scissors with rock on top = snail
paper + paper = butterfly
scissors + scissors = a crab
rock + rock = snowman
...let's see if you can come up with some more ;)

As for learning fingertricks, I am really not someone to talk, but very simple training would be:
1) U (right-index), U' (left-index)
2) R2 U2 (right-index, middle-finger double-tap)
3) sexy-moves both right-handed (R U R' U') as left-handed (L' U' L U), repeat 6 times …again and again and again
4) T-Perm (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F')
5) "scramble with <R, U>, solve with <R, U>" (or <L,U> for left-handed practice
The basic idea about fingertricks is that you keep your wrist-movements balanced (for every R you do an R') and you perform <L,R> with wrists, <U,F> with index-fingers (+middle-finger for U2,F2), <D> with pinky and <B> should be a slightly rotated cube to make it a <U>. As long as you are thinking about what your fingers are doing you need more training. Moves and even whole algs should be entirely muscle-memory
 

Old Tom

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
187
Location
Virginia
WCA
2018DOYL02
As for learning fingertricks, I am really not someone to talk, but very simple training would be:
1) U (right-index), U' (left-index)
2) R2 U2 (right-index, middle-finger double-tap)
3) sexy-moves both right-handed (R U R' U') as left-handed (L' U' L U), repeat 6 times …again and again and again
4) T-Perm (R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F')
5) "scramble with <R, U>, solve with <R, U>" (or <L,U> for left-handed practice
The basic idea about fingertricks is that you keep your wrist-movements balanced (for every R you do an R') and you perform <L,R> with wrists, <U,F> with index-fingers (+middle-finger for U2,F2), <D> with pinky and <B> should be a slightly rotated cube to make it a <U>. As long as you are thinking about what your fingers are doing you need more training. Moves and even whole algs should be entirely muscle-memory

The video is interesting and amusing, especially for someone (me) who knows sign language. The hand shapes and motions for crab and butterfly are pretty much how those are signed in American Sign Language.

I am alarmed that you say that algs should be "entirely muscle memory." While I have done many algs for years (for sighted, not blind solves), and although they are by now quite effortless, my mind always remains "aware" of the movements, and I have never trained myself to be thinking of other things, such as look-ahead. My mind is sort of going "hmm/umm" in rhythm with the alg, which may be forcing me to slow down. I suspect I will have some ingrained bad habits to break.

I cannot find any good slow-motion fingertrick videos on youtube. With most of the videos they seem to be mostly showing off. I do use my index fingers, left and right, for the appropriate U moves. But I am not clear on the correct way to use my right wrist/hand/fingers/thumb. How much re-gripping or re-positioning is invloved? For example,
for an R turn, it seems most natural for me to shift my thumb to the D face while turning my wrist, so that my thumb ends up on the (now) F face. Or is this incorrect? My tendency is to do a lot of repostioning, but perhaps that is wrong?

Lots of other related questions. I guess I should go to more comps and learn first-hand.
 
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pglewis

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Joined
Sep 23, 2016
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WCA
2016LEWI07
How much re-gripping or re-positioning is invloved? For example,
for an R turn, it seems most natural for me to shift my thumb to the D face while turning my wrist, so that my thumb ends up on the (now) F face. Or is this incorrect? My tendency is to do a lot of repostioning, but perhaps that is wrong?

It's good to be flexible, for example starting an R with thumb on the front ("neutral grip", I think) or on the bottom. I try to figure out what works best in the context of the alg involved; what comes before, what comes after. Similar thing with fingering for guitar, where I'm coming from and/or where I'm going to may dictate a fingering that is a bit unusual if taken out of context.
 

pglewis

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2016LEWI07
I should add that it's probably best to stay in neutral grip as much as practical. I'm far from an expert on finger tricks and regrips, but it seems clear that maintaining neutral grip at the start and end of a sequence is going to be more re-grip friendly than not.

If you're not familiar with edge orientation basics during F2L I'd suggest starting to pay attention to that. I think cube rotations are a bigger bottleneck early on than regrips and edge orientation can help you decide when to rotate for the most optimal inserts.
 

pglewis

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As usual, JPerm has a good video on edge orientation to determine when to rotate. The auto generated captions seem fairly good (and remember you can always slow playback speed if it's going by too fast). With 2nd layer edges in the U layer: I determine orientation by the top sticker rather than the side, which is opposite to how he does it. If the top sticker matches or is opposite the front, it's oriented. I'm sure that's entirely a matter of taste but his way of checking the side stickers turns my brain inside-out. You might have difficulty turning a lot faster or absorbing a huge number of algs but you do pick up concepts well and this is a good one IMO.

 

Old Tom

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
187
Location
Virginia
WCA
2018DOYL02
As usual, JPerm has a good video on edge orientation to determine when to rotate. The auto generated captions seem fairly good (and remember you can always slow playback speed if it's going by too fast). With 2nd layer edges in the U layer: I determine orientation by the top sticker rather than the side, which is opposite to how he does it. If the top sticker matches or is opposite the front, it's oriented. I'm sure that's entirely a matter of taste but his way of checking the side stickers turns my brain inside-out. You might have difficulty turning a lot faster or absorbing a huge number of algs but you do pick up concepts well and this is a good one IMO.

Thx. Yes, auto captions are a lot better than nothing! Concepts are what I want, I am more into strategy than tactics. And, the fewer new algs the better! Has always been true for me but especially now.
 

muchacho

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OH Ao5 PB: 20.087 (old was 20.583 from 3 months ago).

But I'm still averaging around 26 seconds.

16425 Sep 21, 2018 8:48:45 AM 00:21.700 D' L2 F2 R2 U B2 L2 F2 U F2 U' B' D2 L' B2 F' L D R' D2 L' U'
16424 Sep 21, 2018 8:48:05 AM 00:17.534 D' R2 U2 B2 U' B2 D R2 D' B2 U' L D B D U F R D2 L2 B D
16423 Sep 21, 2018 8:47:16 AM 00:17.027 D R2 B2 F2 U2 R2 U' F2 R2 U L' D' R2 B' R' L D B' F D2
16422 Sep 21, 2018 8:46:27 AM 00:28.890 D2 R2 D2 U B2 R2 B2 U' R2 U' L2 B' R D R2 B R F L' U R2
16421 Sep 21, 2018 8:45:42 AM 00:21.029 F2 U' F2 U L2 D F2 L2 D2 B2 U' R F U2 L F' R B2 D' U B U'
 

openseas

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
425
WCA
2015PARK24
Any update on your weekend comp results?

I organized another comp in DFW yesterday, tried to make a little bit relaxed, low stressed comp with not-so-many-competitor but ended up with running really hard to catch up the schedule even with the threat of early exit from the venue due to miscommunication :)
Any way, all went well, was able to finish on-time, didn't need to cut the schedule (negotiated with the venue somehow last minute).

So, my main focus was schedule rather than my competition performance, barely avoided triple DNF. In the 2nd round of 3BLD, first attempt was 1:26 with FD / RB flip. Judge didn't check the whole cube and wrote down the time as success :) I had to write the DNF (was almost crying :-() to correct the judge. Could have been official PB (or PR what has been recommended to call these days..) . I'm still averaging about 1:30 with many 1:10~20 at home. Trying to rush the memo during the practice but it is not easy and fruitful so far.

My son got another 17s (5th official) as WR (4th WR) - it was my 2nd attempt of the 2nd round while I was tracing. Heard some quite reaction-type noise and checked whether Max did it but he looked to be quite, so it had to be my son. I guess I lost like several seconds for that + wanted to give up at some point out of excitement but was able to manage to finish and got success.

My next comp is supposed to be OSU (Portland) but due to my business trip schedule / not sure whether we can make it. If we miss it, then, it will be like no comp next two months.
 

cubework

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Sep 17, 2018
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Serious respect for all you OH solvers out there, btw. I really don't care for it, personally, but I do practice it while walking home with my daily coffee. Replacement GTS2M corner ordered and on the way, may it rest in peace. I would not make a good juggler.

So how about aiming to solve two cubes whilst juggling them? lol
 

openseas

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Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
425
WCA
2015PARK24
I tried GTS3, M, LM, no M.

Didn’t like all of them as out of box state but they felt fast. Non-magnet version is unstable while both magnet versions are too strong (magnetic force). Being too lazy these days, didn’t want to mod much, simply took them apart and reassembled as following:

1. Corner M + edge M/no M —> half the magnet slots for edges are empty
2. Corner LM + edge M/no M —> half the magnet slots for edges are empty
3. Corner no M + edge LM

Basically, 1 & 2 are less than half magnetic strength of M or LM while 3 is no magnet version.

Both 1 & 2 came out great with DNM + weakest tension setting + loosen screw

2 will be my main for now

Picture: no M, LM, M (left to right)E375E40C-E500-4ADC-9AD9-9741C449AED5.jpeg
 

xyzzy

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Dec 24, 2015
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1. Corner M + edge M/no M —> half the magnet slots for edges are empty
2. Corner LM + edge M/no M —> half the magnet slots for edges are empty
These probably aren't comp legal. In theory, if you happen to get a bunch of edges of a slice so that all the no M pieces face the same side, there'll be a side with no magnetic pull and the opposite side will have the regular amount of magnetic pull.
 

Sergey

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Feb 16, 2018
Messages
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xyzzy

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Dec 24, 2015
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In some scrambled states, the magnetic pull can differ between the six faces, providing extra information. This likely violates 3h:

3h) Modifications that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle are not permitted. Modified versions of puzzles are permitted only if the modification does not make any additional information available to the competitor (e.g. orientation or identity of pieces), compared to an unmodified version of the same puzzle.
 

Sergey

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Feb 16, 2018
Messages
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In some scrambled states, the magnetic pull can differ between the six faces, providing extra information. This likely violates 3h:

3h) Modifications that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle are not permitted. Modified versions of puzzles are permitted only if the modification does not make any additional information available to the competitor (e.g. orientation or identity of pieces), compared to an unmodified version of the same puzzle.
Yes. You answered while I updated my post with the same reason.
 
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openseas

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Messages
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2015PARK24
In some scrambled states, the magnetic pull can differ between the six faces, providing extra information. This likely violates 3h:

3h) Modifications that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle are not permitted. Modified versions of puzzles are permitted only if the modification does not make any additional information available to the competitor (e.g. orientation or identity of pieces), compared to an unmodified version of the same puzzle.

Hm, I guess we're not entirely in the same page, maybe my description was not accurate:

One edge piece has two plastic parts (two colored plastic): I disassembled magnet version edges and non-magnet version edges and mixed them into one. It is not using two different set of edge pieces. All edges are the same, in one edge piece, one color with magnet, the other color no magnet. I don't think it can provide any information, please correct me if I'm wrong.

In the picture, please imagine that combining first in the left (no magnet edge piece) with the middle (magnet edge piece) and make one edge piece.

IMG_0064.jpg
 
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