Magnets Discussion and Help thread

[Ethan Epstein]

You can find N42 5x1 on AliExpress.
You can also find N45 5x1 on Supramagnets. They're from China, so surely they'll ship internationally. The difference in strength from N42 5x1 is hardly noticeable to basically negligent.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[xyzzy]

The magnets I recently ordered from FastTech just arrived, and it's finally time to make all of my remaining non-magnetic puzzles magnetic!

Just a quick note for anyone else ordering from FastTech: the actual sizes of the magnets seem to be about 15% smaller than the listed sizes.
- "4×1.5" is actually 4×1.30
- "4×2" is actually 4×1.71 (this is closer to 1.5 than to 2, lol)
- "5×1" is actually 5×0.83

I think @One Wheel mentioned that 4×1.5 won't fit in the Wuji's corners, but hopefully these 4×1.3 magnets will fit? (Worst case is that they don't fit and I don't magnetise the outer layers, I guess.)

---

On a mostly unrelated note, have people tried magnetising the internal edges of a 4×4×4?

So, I tried this on a spare Wuque, with the 5×0.8 N52 magnets in the internal edges and 4×1.7 N38 in the wings. (I earlier mistakenly assumed that the internal edges would fit 1-mm thick magnets, but they don't. Just as well that the magnets I got were actually slightly thinner.) Way too weak, barely even noticeable. The plastic gets in the way of making the magnets perfectly aligned, so it looks like this (side view; not to scale). I used Blu Tack rather than glue for these magnets, so I can remove them and try modding the pieces to make the alignment better, although I don't really expect this to change much.

Also, as the magnets are significantly closer to the core (compared to how the inner/inner layers are usually magnetised), that also means less torque for the same amount of force.

Up next: Wushuang M, then Wuji M.

 

[chron0s]

I magnetized some MF3RS3s:

cubicle lite edges (4x1 N48) and strong corners (5x1 N48)
4x1.5 N38 throughout
cubicle strong (5x1 N48) throughout

Order above is from weakest to strongest with 4x1.5 N38 and cubicle strong throughout being similar. 4x1.5 N38 is the 'recommended' strength and fits in the slots whereas with the other combinations I tried you have to install the magnets on the opposite side.

I lubed all 3 cubes identically with black on the core, a generous helping of dignitas, a few drops of lubicle-1, and silk.

This cube benefits from break in - it speeds up. The lubes take away the scratchy feeling it has out of the box.

What magnet strength do I recommend? I like all three, but 4x1.5 N38 has a slight edge for me overall. If you prefer to keep more flexibility lite edges and strong corners works well. I don't think I'd want it lighter than that. It would be interesting to try 4x1 N52 edges, 5x1 N52 corners as well as 4x1.5 N38 edges, 4x1.5 N42 corners (to average into an N40). I don't know where to find these strengths unfortunately.

I love this cube - I was a big fan of the soft feel and controllability of the MF3RS2 but I like the added stability of the MF3RS3 and really enjoy solving on it.

 

[chron0s]

Update on MF3RS3 magnetization efforts - I ordered 5x1 N52 and 4x1 N52 from gaussboys to try a variation on the cubicle lite edge, cubicle strong corner combo. I like having the 4x1 magnets in the edges to make M slices easier, less mass!

 

[xyzzy]

Having played a bit more with my internal-edges-magnetised Wuque, I think I see one (possibly major) problem here, beyond the fact that the magnets I used weren't strong enough.

On, say, the Valk 2, doing edge-corner magnetisation is good because the core is tightly locked to one side of the puzzle. However, on the Wuque (and the Wuhua, and maybe also other big cubes from other brands), the core can get misaligned by quite a fair amount. When making a wide move, half of the time the magnets will make the internal edges lock to the correct side, but half of the time they'll lock to the wrong side. The result is that a wide turn can feel something like this:

initial: magnets lock the layer in place, so you need extra force to initiate the turn
1 degree into the turn: internal edges happen to be locked to the wrong side
1 more degree into the turn: need extra force to separate the internal edges from the wings again

Internal edge + wing magnetisation is not fundamentally impossible, but I don't think it'll be effective on the Wuque. (Will the Valk 4 feature this? I mean, Qiyi did use internal-edge magnetisation on the Valk 2.)

 

[Sergey]

xyzzy, you placed magnets inside "big" internal piece and bottom of the wing? And what about corners in such setup?

 

[xyzzy]

xyzzy, you placed magnets inside "big" internal piece and bottom of the wing? And what about corners in such setup?

Yeah, magnets in the big internal pieces and the bottom of the wings, right above the bottommost peg. For the outer layers I just magnetised it the normal way.

 

[S.S.STAR]

Two months bump, but I think it's better than creating new thread so...


I magnetized little magic 6×6×6, using N35 3×1.5 and 3×2. 144 magnets glued carefully, did polarity check, and assembled. (It was a nightmare to assembly.)

And tada! I can't feel magnets at all! I'll use stronger magnets next time but I don't want to disassemble and assemble this again. Ouch.

 

[One Wheel]

Two months bump, but I think it's better than creating new thread so...


I magnetized little magic 6×6×6, using N35 3×1.5 and 3×2. 144 magnets glued carefully, did polarity check, and assembled. (It was a nightmare to assembly.)

And tada! I can't feel magnets at all! I'll use stronger magnets next time but I don't want to disassemble and assemble this again. Ouch.

Oof. 4x1s are the ones to use in the YLM6. This spreadsheet recommends 4x1 and 4x1.5 n38, what I used was that except where that says 4x1.5 I used a 4x1 n52. I’m really happy with mine.

 

[S.S.STAR]

Oof. 4x1s are the ones to use in the YLM6. This spreadsheet recommends 4x1 and 4x1.5 n38, what I used was that except where that says 4x1.5 I used a 4x1 n52. I’m really happy with mine.

I saw that spreadsheet but I can't access N38 or higher grade magnets. (here's N35 only) So I calculated magnetic force for settings of spreadsheet (k&z magnetic? I can't remember.) and compared my settings. They were similar so I just went with them.

I might be misunderstanding some concepts of magnetic force calculation.:rolleyes:

 

[One Wheel]

I saw that spreadsheet but I can't access N38 or higher grade magnets. (here's N35 only) So I calculated magnetic force for settings of spreadsheet (k&z magnetic? I can't remember.) and compared my settings. They were similar so I just went with them.

I might be misunderstanding some concepts of magnetic force calculation.:rolleyes:

Hmm. I checked that calculator and it does show similar force. At one point I wrote them to ask if they could get it to show a third decimal place, and they said that in reality even the second decimal place wasn’t probably all that reliable. You’re probably within the error range. Your magnets are thicker, but just over half the surface area of a 4mm magnet, and the thickness also means that the centers are further apart. Sometimes adding a light lube will make magnets feel stronger: you might try that.

Edit to add: the difference between n35 and n38 isn’t that great. If n35 is all you can get I would just to 4x1 and 4x1.5, the same as what the spreadsheet suggests for n38.

 

[teh yoshi]

Edit to add: the difference between n35 and n38 isn’t that great. If n35 is all you can get I would just to 4x1 and 4x1.5, the same as what the spreadsheet suggests for n38.

I think I disagree. The feeling between N35 and N38 is very significant compared to N38 and N40/N42.

I magnetized my YLM6 with N38 4x1.5 and N38 4x1 and it came out phenomenal. The strength feels similar to what the AoShi GTS or Shadow has, maybe even a tad stronger. The problem is that obtaining true N38 magnets is expensive and not the inaccurate ones you find on eBay (if I recall, the total amount of magnets that went into my YLM6 ended up costing around $15).

@S.S.STAR Sorry to hear all your hard work ended up sucking. I honestly hate N35 for a lot of hardware. I hope you don't get too discouraged in trying other things in the future, though.

But yeah, I understand if looking at a magnet calculator is all you can get for an idea when choosing magnets, but even that can be massively misleading. Honestly, your best bet is either through trial by error or discussion either here or in the Cubers Discord's hardware channel.

Thanks for being a cautionary tale for others, at least!

 

[S.S.STAR]

Thanks for detailed replies.

Hmm. I checked that calculator and it does show similar force. At one point I wrote them to ask if they could get it to show a third decimal place, and they said that in reality even the second decimal place wasn’t probably all that reliable. You’re probably within the error range. Your magnets are thicker, but just over half the surface area of a 4mm magnet, and the thickness also means that the centers are further apart. Sometimes adding a light lube will make magnets feel stronger: you might try that.

Edit to add: the difference between n35 and n38 isn’t that great. If n35 is all you can get I would just to 4x1 and 4x1.5, the same as what the spreadsheet suggests for n38.

Yeah it does show similiar force but there's many variable conditions I couldn't consider. I'll try adding some lube and tensioning a bit. (I prefer tight tension but try to loose it.)

I think I disagree. The feeling between N35 and N38 is very significant compared to N38 and N40/N42.

I magnetized my YLM6 with N38 4x1.5 and N38 4x1 and it came out phenomenal. The strength feels similar to what the AoShi GTS or Shadow has, maybe even a tad stronger. The problem is that obtaining true N38 magnets is expensive and not the inaccurate ones you find on eBay (if I recall, the total amount of magnets that went into my YLM6 ended up costing around $15).

@S.S.STAR Sorry to hear all your hard work ended up sucking. I honestly hate N35 for a lot of hardware. I hope you don't get too discouraged in trying other things in the future, though.

But yeah, I understand if looking at a magnet calculator is all you can get for an idea when choosing magnets, but even that can be massively misleading. Honestly, your best bet is either through trial by error or discussion either here or in the Cubers Discord's hardware channel.

Thanks for being a cautionary tale for others, at least!

I think extremely weak force is better than absurdly strong because I can use it anyway. And I'm planning other projects so I'm not discouraged! Trial and error for perfection.

 

[xyzzy]

Some more notes on internal-edge magnetisation:

The Yusu R has holes in the internal edges that can fit 4×3.5. I didn't bother permanently magnetising mine though, since I didn't have enough 4×2s and honestly the Yusu R is kinda garbage compared to the Wuques I already have.

Speaking of which, I placed additional magnets for my Wuque M. I might replace the both magnets with 4×2 N50 or something; the magnetic pull is still very weak, although now it's actually noticeable when turning slowly. (I've also tried filing the internal edges so I can push the magnets further in, reducing the distance and thus increasing the force, but I was probably doing something wrong because I barely shaved away any plastic after 20+ minutes of filing.)

The Wuhua v1 and the Shadow both have split-piece designs for the internal edges, but have no room to accommodate magnets facing outwards. Didn't check my Cubing Classroom MF8 because I'm not mad enough to disassemble it that far, but chances are that its internal edges (probably split-piece; there's a visible seam right in the middle) don't have enough room either, considering how thin it looks.

 

[Fukuoka Kengo James]

I have heard that there are empty magnets slots in the edges of the yuxin little magic factory magnetized square1. Does 4*1 magnets fit into the magnets slots in the edges of the yuxin little magic square1?
Help!!!

 

[Fukuoka Kengo James]

Why magnets in the outer layers of big cubes have to be weaker than the magnets in the inner layers?

 

[One Wheel]

Why magnets in the outer layers of big cubes have to be weaker than the magnets in the inner layers?

The value of magnets in big cubes is to help maintain cubic shape. If the magnets in the outer layers were as strong or stronger than the inner layers then they would pull the inner layers along with them.

 

[Fukuoka Kengo James]

The value of magnets in big cubes is to help maintain cubic shape. If the magnets in the outer layers were as strong or stronger than the inner layers then they would pull the inner layers along with them.

I am going to magnetize a 5x5. Is it suitable to use 4*2 n35 x48 magnets in the edge to edge pair, and 4*2 n35 x24 + 4*1.5 n35 (corners) x24 magnets in the corner edge pair?

 

[One Wheel]

I am going to magnetize a 5x5. Is it suitable to use 4*2 n35 x48 magnets in the edge to edge pair, and 4*2 n35 x24 + 4*1.5 n35 (corners) x24 magnets in the corner edge pair?

That sounds about right, possibly go with 4x1.5 n35 entirely on the corner edge pair, by mixing them should work too.

 

[Fukuoka Kengo James]

That sounds about right, possibly go with 4x1.5 n35 entirely on the corner edge pair, by mixing them should work too.

I am mixing the magnets strength of the corner edge pair as I think that the magnets may be too weak.
I have a cyclone boys magnetic skewb, ootb all of the magnets are 4*1.5. They are very weak to me, making me over shoot a lot. Then I switched half of the magnets (only corners) to 4*2 n35, and they work really well!