Which Advanced F2L Method?

[JTW2007]

I already use empty slots and Fridrich F2L, so it looks like a tie between multislotting, MGLS, and better lookahead paired with Fridrich.

 

[JohnnyA]

How could that possibly be true? You don't look ahead during OLL to see your PLL case. Using CLS algs is no different than using OLL as far as PLL recognition goes. I think Lucas can vouch for that.

You can actually look ahead during OLL if you want to. You can look for correct blocks.

So you're saying that you figure out every F2L case every time you see it? face it, fridrich f2l is an intuitive method at first, but experienced cubers use known algorithms even if they were intuitively discovered. anyway, ELS is entirely intuitive, and a decent number of CLS cases can be found intuitively. I also fail to see how intuitive algs are faster than learned ones. Intuitive algs are definitely easier to learn, but I don't see how it makes a difference speed-wise.

It's intuitive because you can make use of empty slots, adjacent slots, etc ... you don't just find a pair, and use an alg. You can try and find However you have to do that with MGLS for the last slot, and I think it's not worth using three algs for LL instead of two. If it's not, please do find a way to show me how it isn't.

Ummm then you don't understand ZZ either. ZZ is not a C/E pair method, it is meant to be a block building method. if you are going to use any sort of last slot method with ZZ then EJF2L would probably be the only efficient one. This is ignoring the fact that ZZ is best used with ZBLL.

I know ZZ is blockbuilding. But MGLS could easily be useful, i.e. you blockbuild one side, then a 1x2x2 on the other side and insert the edge as you do that, then CLL the last corner.

It is because your reasoning is so fundamentally flawed that its difficult to find a place to start.

Go on. I don't know everything about every method, in fact I know next to nothing about every method except Fridrich and maybe Heise. I don't understand why everyone is trying to insult me, I am just giving what advice I can to the thread starter.

Ignoring this pointless argument, I would say any advanced technique is just going to prevent your F2L from getting better. If you learn an advanced method now your lookahead won't improve and you won't be able to improve your F2L later on by learning a new method.

 

[JTW2007]

So how do guys with 4-5 second F2L do it? Is it the method, or is it just lookahead on a level I can't comprehend?

 

[JohnnyA]

So how do guys with 4-5 second F2L do it? Is it the method, or is it just lookahead on a level I can't comprehend?

4-5 second F2L would be very fast. I thought Harris chan got about 7-8 on average, wasn't his WR average for F2L 7 seconds? (www.speedcubing.com is down) Anyway, I get about 10-11 seconds easily with no advanced techniques apart from using empty slots and good lookahead. Multislot and x-cross would be what pushed people to like 7 seconds.

 

[fanwuq]

Answer the man's question rather than arguing off topic!

I don't think anyone can consistently do 4-5 seconds of F2L.
I'd say for Harris Chan, it's probably more like 7 seconds most of the time. Pretty much everyone uses regular Fridrich F2L with empty slot tricks. MGLS is completely off-topic and multi-slotting is nice and something you can practice, but it's not something you can use successfully every solve. I think Sabastien Felix suggested people who are already sub-15 to work on that. For now, practicing Look ahead and turning speed during F2L will do. Try to setup a rhythm and solve without any pauses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsFZQrGhRHY

 

[JTW2007]

Answer the man's question rather than arguing off topic!

Wow. Thank you. I was pretty sure I heard something about Nakajima getting a 4 sec. F2L once...

Anyway, I think I'm going to try to get lookahead better and then try to mix in a few cases of MGLS.

 

[AlanAlanine]

go slow + look ahead >>> learning an "advanced' f2l technique

 

[Lt-UnReaL]

So you're saying that you figure out every F2L case every time you see it? face it, fridrich f2l is an intuitive method at first, but experienced cubers use known algorithms even if they were intuitively discovered. anyway, ELS is entirely intuitive, and a decent number of CLS cases can be found intuitively. I also fail to see how intuitive algs are faster than learned ones. Intuitive algs are definitely easier to learn, but I don't see how it makes a difference speed-wise.

It's intuitive because you can make use of empty slots, adjacent slots, etc ... you don't just find a pair, and use an alg. You can try and find However you have to do that with MGLS for the last slot, and I think it's not worth using three algs for LL instead of two. If it's not, please do find a way to show me how it isn't.

Still nobody told you? MGLS doesn't use 3 algs for the LL...

Fridrich F2L:
4th slot
OLL
PLL

MGLS:
Edge of 4th slot + orient LL edges
Corner of 4th slot + orient LL corners
PLL

Same amount of steps.

 

[Lofty]

If you want advanced do this method:
2x2x2
2x2x3
F2L minus one pair
ZBF2L
ZBLL
Do all the way up to the F2L minus one pair with just freestyle blockbuilding.

 

[JohnnyA]

So you're saying that you figure out every F2L case every time you see it? face it, fridrich f2l is an intuitive method at first, but experienced cubers use known algorithms even if they were intuitively discovered. anyway, ELS is entirely intuitive, and a decent number of CLS cases can be found intuitively. I also fail to see how intuitive algs are faster than learned ones. Intuitive algs are definitely easier to learn, but I don't see how it makes a difference speed-wise.

It's intuitive because you can make use of empty slots, adjacent slots, etc ... you don't just find a pair, and use an alg. You can try and find However you have to do that with MGLS for the last slot, and I think it's not worth using three algs for LL instead of two. If it's not, please do find a way to show me how it isn't.

Still nobody told you? MGLS doesn't use 3 algs for the LL...

Fridrich F2L:
4th slot
OLL
PLL

MGLS:
Edge of 4th slot + orient LL edges
Corner of 4th slot + orient LL corners
PLL

Same amount of steps.

I wanted to ignore this argument but you are blatantly ignoring what I actually said. It's another algorithm you have to use per solve, for the F2L slot you would not use an alg but do it intuitively. Just stop this argument now, please.

 

[Lofty]

So you're saying that you figure out every F2L case every time you see it? face it, fridrich f2l is an intuitive method at first, but experienced cubers use known algorithms even if they were intuitively discovered. anyway, ELS is entirely intuitive, and a decent number of CLS cases can be found intuitively. I also fail to see how intuitive algs are faster than learned ones. Intuitive algs are definitely easier to learn, but I don't see how it makes a difference speed-wise.

It's intuitive because you can make use of empty slots, adjacent slots, etc ... you don't just find a pair, and use an alg. You can try and find However you have to do that with MGLS for the last slot, and I think it's not worth using three algs for LL instead of two. If it's not, please do find a way to show me how it isn't.

Still nobody told you? MGLS doesn't use 3 algs for the LL...

Fridrich F2L:
4th slot
OLL
PLL

MGLS:
Edge of 4th slot + orient LL edges
Corner of 4th slot + orient LL corners
PLL

Same amount of steps.

I wanted to ignore this argument but you are blatantly ignoring what I actually said. It's another algorithm you have to use per solve, for the F2L slot you would not use an alg but do it intuitively. Just stop this argument now, please.

Thats not entirely true. Some people could use Alg based F2L and not intuitive. Also for a lot of us who have been cubing for awhile doing ELS is pretty intuitive.

 

[Hadley4000]

I wanted to ignore this argument but you are blatantly ignoring what I actually said. It's another algorithm you have to use per solve, for the F2L slot you would not use an alg but do it intuitively. Just stop this argument now, please.

http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/index.php?page=3x3x3/cfop/f2l/f2l