Trouble With Old Pochman/M2 BLD

[JemFish]

(Assuming your Y replaces X in normal Speffz.)

Your memo for edges: WC-JB-HA-TD-YJ (even number of targets)
Correct memo for edges: WC-JB-HA-TD-YL-J (odd number of targets)

Comments: I think you confused L and J.

Your memo for corners: OV-SI-QJ-MG-UL (even number of targets)
Correct memo for corners: OV-SI-Q; flip M; flip G (odd number of targets)

Comments: the two pieces C/M/J and V/K/P should not be part of memo - they are flipped corners

Hope that helped.

 

[cubedude22]

Finished the edges and white center is yellow/ yellow center is white & my white/blue & white/green edges are opposite. I did the parity algorithm after edges D' L2 D M2 D' L2 D and that didn't work. I also tried U' F2 U M2 U' F2 U and that didn't work either.

EDIT:

Second attempt after edges, parity alg, D' L2 D M2 D' L2 D then corners. I now have 3 flipped edges yellow/green on top, blue/yellow is in the buffer and white green/ is directly opposite of the buffer.

 

[JemFish]

Finished the edges and white center is yellow/ yellow center is white & my white/blue & white/green edges are opposite. I did the parity algorithm after edges D' L2 D M2 D' L2 D and that didn't work. I also tried U' F2 U M2 U' F2 U and that didn't work either.

I (surprisingly) found your error. By pure luck I executed wrongly, and my scramble ended up like what you described. The memo I provided was entirely correct, but (y)our execution was wrong. I think what you did wrong was your set-up move for W. It's [B2], right? Wrong. You're supposed to go [M U2 M U2] and then for C you should do [U2 M' U2 M'] but because it's the second letter of the pair you do [M U2 M U2] again. So start with [M U2 M U2 M U2 M U2] and you should be fine from there.

It's good to make silly mistakes; you'll probably never make them again.

Hope I helped!

 

[cubedude22]

I'm confused as to why WC isn't M U2 M U2 than U2 M' U2 M'. What does being the second letter of the pair have to do with the algorithms changing? And what do you mean by W being B2?

Thanks for the help so far!

 

[JemFish]

I'm confused as to why WC isn't M U2 M U2 than U2 M' U2 M'. What does being the second letter of the pair have to do with the algorithms changing? And what do you mean by W being B2?

Thanks for the help so far!

[M U2 M U2] and [U2 M' U2 M'] are exact opposites of each other. If you perform one after the other (in any order) nothing's going to happen. You do the opposite alg for a sticker when it's the second letter of a pair because every time you do M2 or an algorithm, the entire M layer is being rotated by 180 degrees. Because of that you're changing the shooting position if the sticker is in the M layer.

For example, perform [M U2 M U2] on a solved cube. Where does the buffer need to go? To C. Take into consideration that yellow is (temporarily) on top, not white.

Now perform [U2 M' U2 M'] on a solved cube. Where does the buffer need to go? To W.

About 'W being B2': if you perform [B2], W will end up in A, the shooting position. You can't do that because you can't disturb the M layer during set-ups, which is why you do [M U2 M U2] instead.

Again, I hope I helped.

 

[cubedude22]

Ah that does make sense. Confusing though. How would this be recognized when memorizing? And yes, you've been very helpful. Thank you again!

 

[JemFish]

Ah that does make sense. Confusing though. How would this be recognized when memorizing? And yes, you've been very helpful. Thank you again!

You're welcome. My examples weren't very accurate though, but I guess they work. You need to have a little play around with M2 (eyes open) to get a good feel for it.

EDIT: You don't need to recognise that while memorising; if a sticker in the M2 layer is the first letter in a letter pair, you just perform the normal algorithm. If it's the second letter of a letter pair, you perform the opposite algorithm.

 

[cubedude22]

I didn't mean your examples were confusing by the way haha. I just meant that the second letter m layer part is a little confusing.

 

[schaek]

This topic is very useful. I'm having a hard time too knowing in what order I have to execute. I can use a list how to setup a letter to switch, but couldn't find a written guide to follow step by step.
Are there websites where they hold your hands in what order you should execute (like TE WL AR BI JX M)?

When I understand that part I can try them myself in PPT. I already tried some edge-scrambles in it but I'm always stuck and can never find the correct order.

 

[cubing247]

Bringing this thread back to life.

The concept behind Pochmann corners and M2 is not all that difficult IMO. I've had moments from reading posts on here/watching videos where I say to myself "well shizz, this finally makes sense", but often times I find myself scratching my head like "lol wut? NVM" and my memo always takes FOREVER. Cycle breaks still confuse me. There are times where I'll be trying to memo and my memo will end up like (just using random letters here, it's not meant to make sense)

AS-DT-RF-GF-DT-SD-HT-NI-UY-RF-TG-DS-CD-HF..etc

I'm sure I'm not the only one who can't wrap there head around this silly, (very easy) concept. It just hasn't clicked for me well enough to not mess it up almost every time.

Here is a scramble that has had me working for a quite a while.

Scramble:

D2 F R2 B' U2 F D2 L2 F' L2 B D' B L R D R B2 R U2

White on top green front. Noahs letters.

Edges: JD-V then a cycle break (and I've come up with about 4 different memos and none work)

Corners
MD-S cycle break I shot to P-WX-V (but I don't think it's right).

Any advice/help is appreciated very much.

 

[mark49152]

Edges JD V/A HC MA/ LX F/T WN

Corners MD S/P WV/ & UBR twist, DFL solved

Slash means break. Of course you could start new cycles on different stickers than I chose.

 

[cubing247]

Wow, well that is incredibly helpful.

Thank you mark

Any advice on keeping track of what pieces aren't solved, so I know where to shoot if I encounter multiple cycle breaks, like this?

 

[sqAree]

Wow, well that is incredibly helpful.

Thank you mark

Any advice on keeping track of what pieces aren't solved, so I know where to shoot if I encounter multiple cycle breaks, like this?

Put your fingers on the pieces that are already memorized. Also, I personally have a standard order of letters I shoot to in case of a cycle break (first it's B, and if B is not available I shoot to I, but it's arbitrary).

 

[mark49152]

Any advice on keeping track of what pieces aren't solved, so I know where to shoot if I encounter multiple cycle breaks, like this?

Rather than try to track all the pieces solved or unsolved, I keep a shortlist of stickers I like to start new cycles on. For edges, those are ALJRT in that order. So when tracing, I mentally "tick off" each of those if it's already seen, then pick one that's left if I need to start a new cycle. In the above memo, after the third break, I know I've ticked off A, J, L and R (H) but T is still left.

Occasionally I get a break after all those have already been seen, but that's just bad luck

 

[cubing247]

Thanks for the advice fellas. There is some real good information here.

Having prepared spots to shoot to seems very effective and I will try practicing that!

I used csTimer and did a few edge only scrambles and got 2/3. This was the 3rd.

L2 U' B2 D L2 U2 R2 U F2 U' L F2 D' R D2 F' U' B' R' F'

After executing the memo I'm left with an M2, which leaves my target and buffer pieces in the wrong spot. Not sure how to fix this.

Memo:
JT-WE-GP-CV-FR-MC

Is there a limit to how many letter pairs you can have in a memo?

 

[mark49152]

Memo:
JT-WE-GP-CV-FR-MC

Is there a limit to how many letter pairs you can have in a memo?

Yes. Pieces solved = letters minus breaks. Your memo above has 12 letters and 2 breaks so solves 10 pieces. As there are 11 edges to solve, there is one missing. That is UB, which is flipped.

The limit would be 5 cycles, so 11+5 = 16 letters, assuming you don't memo flipped edges as cycles.

You should not have M2 displaced on this scramble, but in other scrambles you may have parity, which means you cannot solve your edges without also swapping two corners.

 

[cubing247]

I've run into parity and have a pretty good understanding on when and how to do it.. but I'm not entirely sure how to solve flipped edges. I didn't even realize it during memo.

Again, I appreciate the help.

 

[mark49152]

You can either flip an edge by executing both stickers, so JP for the front right edge, etc. Or, use an alg to flip 2 or 4 at a time, which can include the buffer. Try ((M' U)3 M U)2 which should flip UR and buffer.

 

[cubing247]

I like the idea of executing both stickers. I kind of had a feeling it was like doing twisted corners, I should have really tried intuitively.

My last csTimer scramble had a flipped edge in it and your tips helped me solve it.

I appreciate all the help!

 

[cubing247]

I'm trying my very hardest not to ask for too much help with this since learning/figuring it out on my own is better in the long run, but I just spent the last few days doing nothing but BLD and still get so mixed up over stuff.

I have my corner and edge set up moves 90% down, my execution is good.. but my memo is so sluggish. And I still get confused over cycle breaks, spotting flipped edges, keeping my fingers on the edges as I'm memorizing. A lot of the time I drop the cube or one of the layers will turn and I'll mess up haha.

Edges only SCRAMBLE:
R F' D F U2 R2 U L R2 F' R2 B R2 B L2 F R2 U2 B' D

I've been stuck on this one for 30 minutes now.

IF anyone cares to keep helping, It's always appreciated. So much.

Thanks!