Kit Clement
Premium Member
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,626
- Location
- Champaign, IL, USA
- WCA ID
- 2008CLEM01
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Hope you'll still be looking in 2029 when the next episode drops!
The Layer by Layer Podcast
- Thread starter Kit Clement
- Start date
abunickabhi
Legend
Nice podcast, good to see comprehensive coverage!
Looking forward to the next one yo.
gsingh
Legend
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2021
- Messages
- 2,792
- Location
- Bay Area, California
- WCA ID
- 2019SING33
- YouTube
- Visit Channel
Oh my god thank you
ProStar
Legend
Really fun listen, enjoyed reliving for an hour the part of my life which significantly involved this podcast. I’m not sure how in-touch Andrew and Kit are nowadays, but I for one would love to hear podcasts more than triennially. The cubing discussion was/is interesting but my favorite parts are the topics only tangentially related to speedsolving. I was/am a big Hello Internet fan and this podcast has very similar vibes. Much like that show, the “main topic” is outclassed by the random and wandering discussions that take place (like death, or colors).
I’m with Andrew on the natural order of colors, especially the 6 main colors. I’m even somewhat on board with orange being a case of social deception. When looking at the visible light spectrum, orange takes up about as much real estate as aqua, acting largely as a transition between two colors rather than a truly unique color range. Since yellow is already treated as a primary color, despite our eyes not having yellow-specific cones, and since it covers a relatively narrow range of the spectrum, I’d nominate yellow to absorb most shades of orange. I still see purple as its own color though, due to being at an end of the spectrum and because it has many shades distinct from any type of blue. Maybe make lavender the standard and split the darker (more wine-like, perhaps) purples between deep blue and dark lavender?
Regarding Crayola: Anthony van Dyck was a somewhat famous painter who lived in the early 1600s and whose paintings became largely associated with a particular shade of brown. It even has its own Wikipedia page. As English progressed, Van Dyck became Van Dyke, and when Crayola was deciding colors it used the name and shade for a crayon. It was removed due to being a duplicate of the brown crayon, which is why it was only around for a few years.
Onto the cubing parts of the podcast. I’m personally pretty disappointed in the WCA’s decision to remove Clock, mainly because of the odd timing of it. For many years Clock was extremely boring and frankly not a good event, having all the issues it currently does of being somewhat difficult to run and not fitting in with the other puzzles. Had the board chosen to remove Clock at that time I think it would’ve been a far better decision (although some people will complain about any change—see 3x3WF removal). The fact that Clock has skyrocketed in popularity, had revolutionary method development, and had brand new hardware over the past few years makes the removal feel so much worse.
I’m not sure whether this reflects the Board being tone-deaf to the community or them being very slow to act, as the timing of the FTO addition is equally odd. You both discussed this in the episode, but FTO was just now losing steam as a movement after a solid few years of hype. Why not add it earlier?
Overall, I’m really not pleased with the direction the WCA is headed—this video in particular has me worried. For years there’s been a lot of talk about making cubing spectator friendly, but truthfully, I don’t want cubing to be spectator friendly, at least not WCA competitions. When it comes to cubing, what’s good for spectators and for profit isn’t what’s good for the community. 2-3, 6-7, Pyraminx, Skewb, Clock, 4-5BLD, MBLD, and FM (reference !!) are all not spectator friendly, and if the only goal is to grow cubing as a sport then they should probably all be removed. Lower-skill solvers should also be banned from participating in competitions. But to me, that’s not the point of the WCA. The goal of the organization should be to grow and foster the cubing community, not the “sport of cubing”. A separate, competitive—likely for-profit—cubing league focused on elite talent and exciting events would be great for cubing and could launch it into the public eye much like what has happened to chess in the last several years (this is a conversation for another time, but I don’t think PSL is a good candidate to fill that role), but not if it means sacrificing the community events that are regular WCA competitions. The WCA is in a spot where they’re trying to fill two separate roles, and I don’t think it will work. They work best as and should focus on being community-oriented.
I believe the best way for the WCA to help the community right now would be to introduce a variation of the tiered events system that Kit, myself, and plenty others have been talking about for over 6 years. The ideas you discussed in this episode, particularly the limiting of lower tier events in local competitions, make the tiered events system a lot better and more feasible. A tiered events system would come with downsides—current events being demoted, a software overhaul, lots of work for the WRC—but I believe it is by far the best path the WCA can take with cubing right now. I haven’t cubed nearly as much as some of the community veterans, but I resonate strongly with being generally bored of the WCA events. The WCA has been around for 20 years, and the events have only had minor changes in the last 10. I don’t think cubing will die if the tiered events don’t get added, but I think you’ll start to see more and more longtime cubers drift away from the hobby they love, or stick around only for the community. FTO may curb the desire for change briefly, but with how popular and optimized the event already is, that interest isn’t going to sustain the community for another 5-10 years. A tiered system of events would completely revolutionize cubing and would solidify the WCA as for the community, as well as opening the door for someone else (even if they’re partnered with the WCA!) to focus on the task of bringing cubing to the masses and making it profitable.
That got a bit more negative and persuasive-essay-ish than I had expected when I started writing…so I’ll wrap up these comments by saying it was great to have another hour of LBL and hear both of you chatting. Hopefully there will be more!
P.S: I really don’t want to add another full paragraph before sending this message, but the video I linked earlier has some very useful and interesting information that, if accurate, has really disillusioned me with the board. In particular, the apparent quote from Abdullah Gulab (WCA Board Member) that the real biggest reason Clock was removed is confidential. If true, this is super concerning and testifies that the Board does not prioritize transparency with the community, which would be an awful sign for the community and the WCA and…I’m going to stop now before I really get going again.
Happy cubing! (or board gaming, or parenting, or whatever it is we’re each doing nowadays)
Regarding Crayola: Anthony van Dyck was a somewhat famous painter who lived in the early 1600s and whose paintings became largely associated with a particular shade of brown. It even has its own Wikipedia page. As English progressed, Van Dyck became Van Dyke, and when Crayola was deciding colors it used the name and shade for a crayon. It was removed due to being a duplicate of the brown crayon, which is why it was only around for a few years.
Onto the cubing parts of the podcast. I’m personally pretty disappointed in the WCA’s decision to remove Clock, mainly because of the odd timing of it. For many years Clock was extremely boring and frankly not a good event, having all the issues it currently does of being somewhat difficult to run and not fitting in with the other puzzles. Had the board chosen to remove Clock at that time I think it would’ve been a far better decision (although some people will complain about any change—see 3x3WF removal). The fact that Clock has skyrocketed in popularity, had revolutionary method development, and had brand new hardware over the past few years makes the removal feel so much worse.
I’m not sure whether this reflects the Board being tone-deaf to the community or them being very slow to act, as the timing of the FTO addition is equally odd. You both discussed this in the episode, but FTO was just now losing steam as a movement after a solid few years of hype. Why not add it earlier?
Overall, I’m really not pleased with the direction the WCA is headed—this video in particular has me worried. For years there’s been a lot of talk about making cubing spectator friendly, but truthfully, I don’t want cubing to be spectator friendly, at least not WCA competitions. When it comes to cubing, what’s good for spectators and for profit isn’t what’s good for the community. 2-3, 6-7, Pyraminx, Skewb, Clock, 4-5BLD, MBLD, and FM (reference !!) are all not spectator friendly, and if the only goal is to grow cubing as a sport then they should probably all be removed. Lower-skill solvers should also be banned from participating in competitions. But to me, that’s not the point of the WCA. The goal of the organization should be to grow and foster the cubing community, not the “sport of cubing”. A separate, competitive—likely for-profit—cubing league focused on elite talent and exciting events would be great for cubing and could launch it into the public eye much like what has happened to chess in the last several years (this is a conversation for another time, but I don’t think PSL is a good candidate to fill that role), but not if it means sacrificing the community events that are regular WCA competitions. The WCA is in a spot where they’re trying to fill two separate roles, and I don’t think it will work. They work best as and should focus on being community-oriented.
I believe the best way for the WCA to help the community right now would be to introduce a variation of the tiered events system that Kit, myself, and plenty others have been talking about for over 6 years. The ideas you discussed in this episode, particularly the limiting of lower tier events in local competitions, make the tiered events system a lot better and more feasible. A tiered events system would come with downsides—current events being demoted, a software overhaul, lots of work for the WRC—but I believe it is by far the best path the WCA can take with cubing right now. I haven’t cubed nearly as much as some of the community veterans, but I resonate strongly with being generally bored of the WCA events. The WCA has been around for 20 years, and the events have only had minor changes in the last 10. I don’t think cubing will die if the tiered events don’t get added, but I think you’ll start to see more and more longtime cubers drift away from the hobby they love, or stick around only for the community. FTO may curb the desire for change briefly, but with how popular and optimized the event already is, that interest isn’t going to sustain the community for another 5-10 years. A tiered system of events would completely revolutionize cubing and would solidify the WCA as for the community, as well as opening the door for someone else (even if they’re partnered with the WCA!) to focus on the task of bringing cubing to the masses and making it profitable.
That got a bit more negative and persuasive-essay-ish than I had expected when I started writing…so I’ll wrap up these comments by saying it was great to have another hour of LBL and hear both of you chatting. Hopefully there will be more!
P.S: I really don’t want to add another full paragraph before sending this message, but the video I linked earlier has some very useful and interesting information that, if accurate, has really disillusioned me with the board. In particular, the apparent quote from Abdullah Gulab (WCA Board Member) that the real biggest reason Clock was removed is confidential. If true, this is super concerning and testifies that the Board does not prioritize transparency with the community, which would be an awful sign for the community and the WCA and…I’m going to stop now before I really get going again.
Happy cubing! (or board gaming, or parenting, or whatever it is we’re each doing nowadays)
Last edited:
SpeedCubingLord
Veteran
I'll be waiting unpatiently.
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