Tell'em About Jesus!

Why should that matter? Cubing is about cubing , not what you eat or believe. Why should a muslim cuber be any different? As you know I met many muslim cubers in Indonesian, I did not notice and difference between , no religion cubers, muslims or Christian cubers, this because it does not matter.

I assure you that people, at least in the States, would be very acceptive (word?), apart from the occasional prick, of course, and I'm nearly sure people from other places would agree about their cubers. Any cubers that have been a round for a decent time period seem to be nice, accepting people that would completely understand where you would come from.

Isn't it halal, not kosher? And the other stuff doesn't really matter that much. At the last MN Open, I probably should've ordered one more cheese pizza, but not really that big of a deal. And the alcohol? Many cubers aren't legal drinking age, and some of us (like myself) are, but don't drink anyway.

Just to give you guys a sort of example, during the fasting period, the community here had a gathering and as usual, we went to McDonalds(they should really sponsor us for how much we eat their food). Since I'm fasting, it affected the gathering in a way. But yeah, so far every cuber I met is really kind and usually is accepting and understanding about another's situation.
 
internally consistent, historically-accurate Bible
Not quite. But it may not be a good idea to get into this argument.

In the book it shows that the historical facts in the NT are very accurate, given the destruction of Jerusalem, the diversity in the Roman Empire, and how the roman officials liked to make up fancy titles for themselves, it would be hard to do if the documents were written at a time far removed from the events recorded and if the writers where not either eyewitnesses or spoke to eyewitnesses.
The numbers I've heard were that the NT books were written somewhere in the region of 50 to 150 AD. This is pretty close to the actual events so it makes sense that the Roman Empire personalities and large historical events were accurate (they did, after all, have history books in those days, and the Roman Empire didn't fall until ~450 AD). The thing is that after 20+ years events tend to get embellished and slightly exaggerated, especially if they are stories being told in order to help bring followers into the faith. (I'm sure you have seen this in cubing; you might do a solve that is 20 seconds, but the person who saw it will think it is 15 seconds, and then they might tell someone else it was 10 seconds, until eventually someone you know tells you that their friend's friend saw this guy do a cube one-handed in three seconds.) However accurate the NT is according to our knowledge of the big events of the time, it's extremely difficult to say whether any or all of the written events of Jesus's life took place. The fact that the four Gospels differ in the details and pacing doesn't help matters much.

Would I die for something I know that I made up just to play I nice trick on people down the road?
If you'd started something huge and you wanted it to keep going? Maybe. Sometimes the continuation of an organization (company, country, religion) can end up to be considered more valuable than individual lives. No country that didn't believe this would ever go to war :) Besides, while I'm not saying that this necessarily applies to religion itself, it can happen that if you keep up a lie long enough, and act on it, you start to believe it is true.

I am of the opinion that if any person genuinely tried to seek the true God themselves then God would send someone to them. And by that I mean admitting that a god must exist due to creation (don't take that word too far it just basically means all the stuff that exists) and try to seek Him and know that as a man you can't match up to God.
This is a tricky argument. It definitely does make sense that God would send some kind of message to anyone who wished to worship Him but didn't know how. The problem, though, is that people from many different religions (and many different sects of the religions) have had experiences such as this. All major religions have converts and have people who have had religious visions, so how could there be anything about a particular person's conversion or religious vision (even if that person is you) that proves that particular religion is the correct one?

Did you realize that everyone in the bible with your kind of attitude died, or lived horribly. I'm just saying, its faith.
Don't quote me on this, but it seems to me that the only reason the Bible mentions people who don't have faith is to use them as allegories or examples of what can happen if you don't believe. Remember that at the time of the NT there were millions of Jews in the area around Jerusalem, and I seriously doubt that all of them were immediately killed or had horrible lives. I suppose this also brings up the point of Job, who was essentially punished with a (temporarily) horrible life because of his belief.
 
The fact that the four Gospels differ in the details and pacing doesn't help matters much.

Sorry to take that out of context, but I may have something that explains that a bit. Of course it's debatable, but I believe that it makes sense.

"One of the arguments I'd often heard against believing what the Gospels say is that they contradict one another. How can two Gospels both be accurate if tehy give different accounts of the same event?
A surprising discovery is that many historians consider minor variations to be evidence in favor of the truth of an account. The idea is that if the writers were lying, they'd make sure to get their stories staright - and they'd agree in every detail. What seems to be a contradiction is often just the same event viewed from a different perspective."

Of course, I bolded that part myself. The text is taken from page 54 in "The Case for Chirst - Youth Edition" by Lee Strobel.
 
An attitude as if to say " Show me some proof, and I'll believe" when the proof is all around you.

Just because you cant see it, doesn't mean its not there. (of course, same goes with air)

What a stupid argument. Give me one piece of proof, and not something moronic. I bet I can think of a realistic scientific explanation for whatever stupid thing your small brain can think up.

(And just for fun: Just because you can't think of a good example, doesn't mean it's not there).
 
Jesus is the SON OF GOD
The bible says this

for the third time I will give you this link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_trinity
Please ACTUALLY READ it this time.

for the first time i will give you this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_fairy

edit: ZOMG LIKE DOUBLE POSTAGE!

SHALL I BE FLAMED?!

Once again I will point out that I'm an atheist. krazedkat has made the claim several times now that Christians are worshiping two different God's, and thus the bible contradicts itself by telling you earlier to only worship one god, and I am merely trying to point out to him that according to their bible, no they aren't.

Only part of the bible is theirs, the new testament it theirs. The old testament is Jewish... -.-
 
I remember from the bible, the multiplication of Fish and bread from 2 to 40(i think those were the numbers, someone with a bible near them please correct me).

Also from the bible, the lady who turned into a pillar of salt when disobeying God's orders not to turn around.
Nothing from the Bible can be used as proof that God exists, because if you do not assume that God exists from the start you will not accept anything in the Bible as factual.
 
I remember from the bible, the multiplication of Fish and bread from 2 to 40(i think those were the numbers, someone with a bible near them please correct me).

Also from the bible, the lady who turned into a pillar of salt when disobeying God's orders not to turn around.
Nothing from the Bible can be used as proof that God exists, because if you do not assume that God exists from the start you will not accept anything in the Bible as factual.

Well then, I give up, because If he doesn't believe in God, then nothing i say will get through his head.

Ill pick this back up tomorrow, but by then there will be about 6 new pages.
 
Jesus is the SON OF GOD
The bible says this

for the third time I will give you this link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_trinity
Please ACTUALLY READ it this time.

for the first time i will give you this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_fairy

edit: ZOMG LIKE DOUBLE POSTAGE!

SHALL I BE FLAMED?!

Once again I will point out that I'm an atheist. krazedkat has made the claim several times now that Christians are worshiping two different God's, and thus the bible contradicts itself by telling you earlier to only worship one god, and I am merely trying to point out to him that according to their bible, no they aren't.

Only part of the bible is theirs, the new testament it theirs. The old testament is Jewish... -.-

The old testament isn't ONLY Jewish. Christians use it as well, and it's a heavy influence or the Quran, although in all honesty I don't know enough about Islam to say how modified their version of the OT is. That still doesn't change the fact that the new testament states that the holy trinity is all one God.
 
An attitude as if to say " Show me some proof, and I'll believe" when the proof is all around you.

Just because you cant see it, doesn't mean its not there. (of course, same goes with air)

What a stupid argument. Give me one piece of proof, and not something moronic. I bet I can think of a realistic scientific explanation for whatever stupid thing your small brain can think up.

(And just for fun: Just because you can't think of a good example, doesn't mean it's not there).

Before I say anything, I'd like to point out that its people like you who cause religious arguments. A simple " Could you give me some proof, that i cant explain scientifically" would've worked.

Umm lets see...
I remember from the bible, the multiplication of Fish and bread from 2 to 40(i think those were the numbers, someone with a bible near them please correct me).

Also from the bible, the lady who turned into a pillar of salt when disobeying God's orders not to turn around.

3. And id also like to point out that everything you explain scientifically, is probably caused by God anyway

Please prove to me that the entire content of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows didn't actually happen. If you haven't actually read the book, here are just a few non-spoilers that I want you to prove aren't true.
-Hagrid is a real person, and is half giant
-Voldemort is a real person and uses his real magic wand to kill people
-The very real invisibility cloak allows whoever wears it invisibility.

Please prove to me that any of the above are false. I have all 7 Harry Potter books by my side waiting to refute you.
 
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An attitude as if to say " Show me some proof, and I'll believe" when the proof is all around you.

Just because you cant see it, doesn't mean its not there. (of course, same goes with air)

What a stupid argument. Give me one piece of proof, and not something moronic. I bet I can think of a realistic scientific explanation for whatever stupid thing your small brain can think up.

(And just for fun: Just because you can't think of a good example, doesn't mean it's not there).

Get back to # every once in awhile.
 
An attitude as if to say " Show me some proof, and I'll believe" when the proof is all around you.

Just because you cant see it, doesn't mean its not there. (of course, same goes with air)

What a stupid argument. Give me one piece of proof, and not something moronic. I bet I can think of a realistic scientific explanation for whatever stupid thing your small brain can think up.

(And just for fun: Just because you can't think of a good example, doesn't mean it's not there).

Before I say anything, I'd like to point out that its people like you who cause religious arguments. A simple " Could you give me some proof, that i cant explain scientifically" would've worked.

Umm lets see...
I remember from the bible, the multiplication of Fish and bread from 2 to 40(i think those were the numbers, someone with a bible near them please correct me).

Also from the bible, the lady who turned into a pillar of salt when disobeying God's orders not to turn around.

3. And id also like to point out that everything you explain scientifically, is probably caused by God anyway

Please prove to me that the entire content of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows didn't actually happen. If you haven't actually read the book, here are just a few non-spoilers that I want you to prove aren't true.
-Hagrid is a real person, and is half giant
-Voldemort is a real person and uses his real magic wand to kill people
-The very real invisibility cloak allows whoever wears it invisibility.

Please prove to me that any of the following are false. I have all 7 Harry Potter books by my side waiting to refute you.

uggh, Deleting my post because of so many loopholes and rebuttals.
 
But saying it'll never get through his head is implying stubbornness, when really it is just refusal to accept unproven circular logic. Just because there is no other solid explanation for ONE question doesn't mean we need to make up a man in the sky to explain EVERYTHING for us in ways that often don't even make sense.
 
I have more problems with religion than the concept of god itself.

From what we know, the concept of god and religion came in to being when people couldn't explain things that surrounded them. Things like day and night, lightning, seasons, etc. I also happened to watch a documentary which explained the theory that most major religions of the world are just adaptations of sun-worship. The movie explained the uncanny similarities between Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and the way most of the prophets associated with these religions share very common characters.

That said, I think that institution of religion should be as dynamic as human society itself. Why do we cringe on to orthodox religious views when we know that they existed because of man's limited understanding of nature? Religion must evolve for the good as man's understanding of nature expands.

I hold an agnostic point of view and ironically I was born in a very orthodox Hindu family. I find many Hindu customs to be obsolete and outright ridiculous. I am sure this is also the case with any other religion. When I try and explain to people this fallacy, they are either offended or reply something like "It is a tradition and we are obliged to keep it up". And all this has absolutely nothing to do with god. Even the most objective of my friends drop their guard and resort to blind faith when it comes to religion.

My point is, I don't know if god exists or not. Even if he does, I don't know what he wants. But I am pretty sure he doesn't want people to go visit temples/churches every Sunday. Or participate in elaborate religious rituals. Or fight one another in his name. I don't need religion to tell me that it is not a good thing to kill my neighbour. And certainly he doesn't ask for your money.

I hate the fact that religion has been responsible for the death of people in epidemic proportions. State cemeteries across the world are full of dead soldiers who were convinced that god was on their side. I hate the fact that religious institutions don't have to pay taxes. I hate the fact that politicians end their speeches with "God bless America" to invoke religious sentiments.

Even though religion has lot of good to it, and is responsible for many good things, I am of the opinion that cumulatively, it has had a negative effect on human society.
 
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One of the huge problems with debating religion is that religious beliefs are based in faith, so the core beliefs are axioms. Just like the atheist has core axiomatic beliefs. These usually boil down to, "There is a God/There is no God". Because of the atheists core beliefs, they always demand that God be proven to them. And this is just as difficult as a Christian telling an atheist to prove that God doesn't exist. But because of the core belief, "Not exist" is the default in the atheist's mind, while "Does exist" is the default in the Christian's mind.

When you look at facts, there's different types of facts, observable and historical. Observable facts are facts that can be directly observed, like gravity. I could setup experiments and determine the same value you determine. And then you have historical facts, like who won the 2009 WC. There's nothing I can do today to determine for myself who won the WC. I can go to the WCA website and look at who they say won, and look at their interpretation of the recorded results and see why they come up with that answer. But, all I can do is interpret the times, which a recorded events that I can't really ever guarantee. Now, considering it was only just a few weeks ago, and it was recorded by people I trust, I can be pretty confident I know who won WC.

But when we have events that aren't directly observable, then we rely on interpretation of the facts. And these interpretations are always influenced by our core beliefs.

For example, in carbon dating, we don't know what the ratio of C12 to C14 is when things died. We need that value to calculate the age. Since we're talking about something in the past, it's historical. And since no one recorded it, we must interpret facts to get that value. If someone assumed that the Earth is billions of years old, then they would make the assumption that the Earth has achieved equilibrium of C12/C14, so they can just use the observable ratio of today, and assume it was valid years ago. But if you have someone who believes that there was some event that buried a lot of carbon-based elements, then the ratio would be different, so C14 dating doesn't work.
 
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