PatrickJameson
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Why can't the God you believe in just show undisputed proof to everyone that he exists? I would worship Him then :/.
Tell'em About Jesus!
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Why can't the God you believe in just show undisputed proof to everyone that he exists? I would worship Him then :/.
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Ethan Rosen
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_trinity
Note: I'm not saying I believe in that, I'm just pointing out that he's saying that people who worship Jesus as a God are violating the one god commandment, when Christianity notes that they are one God.
Edit:
@lofty. I was hoping that someone else would respond to what you asked me earlier because I don't want to get into an argument with someone I respect as a person, but I'll just try to keep this as brief as possible.
"Crap" was not an appropriate word for this discussion, and I'll admit to that, but I would like to clarify that I was not calling the religion crap. I was saying that things like the Earth being 6,000 years old, the Sun revolving around the earth, and the idea that someone could fit two of every species that exists on Earth right now onto one ship, and people living to 900 years old or whatever it is are "crap." I mean, I know that there are people who take things like that metaphorically, and I'm fine with drawing lessons out of stories that you don't think actually happened, but I just can't understand how people can believe things like that are actually true.
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Lofty
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Jesus is God. The Father is God. The Holy Spirit is God. Jesus is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit nor is the Father the Spirit.
Thats the basic Trinity. One God but three persons. It is hard to understand or really impossible but thats what is in the NT so thats what Christians believe. It is not polytheism and its not more than one God. It is still just one God.
And Jesus walking around performing miracles, raising from the dead, and the subsequent spread of Christianity under intense persecution is proof enough. Have you looked into material like I provided earlier before?
Note even most Christians know guys like Bruce exists so idk how much nonChristians know about stuff like that.
Thats the basic Trinity. One God but three persons. It is hard to understand or really impossible but thats what is in the NT so thats what Christians believe. It is not polytheism and its not more than one God. It is still just one God.
Are you sure? The Israelites got loads of undisputed proof and then they walked right away. And in my own life I know that when I have great religious experiences and then have quickly been distracted from them.
And Jesus walking around performing miracles, raising from the dead, and the subsequent spread of Christianity under intense persecution is proof enough. Have you looked into material like I provided earlier before?
Note even most Christians know guys like Bruce exists so idk how much nonChristians know about stuff like that.
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Zeroknight
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A good explanation for this would be the one that St. Patrick used. Imagine a three-leaf clover. Each leaf either represents The Father, The Son, or The Holy Spirit. Each of them are separate, but exist within the same being. The Holy Trinity is like that.
Lofty
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I am very wary of any description of the Trinity that goes beyond the basic one of negations. Its very easy to get into heresies regarding the Trinity and until I'm more versed in theology I prefer to keep it simple.
But now we are getting off of religion and Christianity in general into finer points of doctrine.
But now we are getting off of religion and Christianity in general into finer points of doctrine.
Edmund
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Wow. I guess this is how those heresies got started (I always kind of wondered). There are so many involving the trinity. Thanks for standing up for us Christians, Lofty.
Zeroknight
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Right, I understand that, but remember, we are dealing with people who have yet to accept Salvation, and thus, most have no knowledge of/don't really care for Biblical Doctrine (no offense, guys). And besides, we need to do whatever we can to win souls.
Negations, quantum proofs of Doctrines don't work with people who have no idea what you're talking about in the first place, lol.
PatrickJameson
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Um. This is not undisputed proof. I mean undisputed as in everyone knows what you believe is true. If your God wanted everyone to worship Him, it shouldn't be that difficult for Him to prove it, right?
Mr Cubism
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If Jesus was here today maybe he would be interested in a extended cross?!
Lofty
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I was more questioning the fact that undesputed proof actually leads to everyone worshiping God not trying to give you proof.
I purposefully never actually said that undisputed proof exists for us today. There is proof, certainly, but its nothing like writing in the sky.
There is the classic answer of then trusting God wouldn't be by faith.
God could also be more glorified in us following Him even though we haven't seen Him. It shows that we don't need physical proof and don't need a rock falling from the sky telling us how to what to do, we have other spiritual connections with God that we follow and lead us to believe in Him.
But that doesn't contradict what I was saying about trying to prove things. Sorry that I don't have a really good answer for you.
Well like I said earlier, I haven't studied Genesis's primordial history. There are people who try to interpret the evidence different ways to get a young earth but I've never really heard any valid arguments that convinced me. Mostly bogus stuff that was debunked a long time ago.
Most people who (ministers, etc) who I have talked to have held to the Apparent Age Theory. Personally I think its a little bit of a cop out. But it goes something like God made Adam as an adult and He put Adam in a full grown garden, so He made a universe that was "full-grown" too.
I won't pretend to have an answer or an opinion on this one. But once you have a belief in God established and you allow for divine intervention anything can happen. I don't like to use that too much because I don't like all the implications of God giving us misleading evidence.
Personally I wouldn't have much of a problem as taking the primordial history as an allegory. But due to other religious convictions I have a hard time doing that. I really want to learn more about this stuff and I promise I'll be more knowledgeable in the future.
I purposefully never actually said that undisputed proof exists for us today. There is proof, certainly, but its nothing like writing in the sky.
There is the classic answer of then trusting God wouldn't be by faith.
God could also be more glorified in us following Him even though we haven't seen Him. It shows that we don't need physical proof and don't need a rock falling from the sky telling us how to what to do, we have other spiritual connections with God that we follow and lead us to believe in Him.
But that doesn't contradict what I was saying about trying to prove things. Sorry that I don't have a really good answer for you.
Don't worry about it, haven't you seen enough of this thread to know that I'm not going to get offended and argue but have a valid discussion with you.
Well like I said earlier, I haven't studied Genesis's primordial history. There are people who try to interpret the evidence different ways to get a young earth but I've never really heard any valid arguments that convinced me. Mostly bogus stuff that was debunked a long time ago.
Most people who (ministers, etc) who I have talked to have held to the Apparent Age Theory. Personally I think its a little bit of a cop out. But it goes something like God made Adam as an adult and He put Adam in a full grown garden, so He made a universe that was "full-grown" too.
I won't pretend to have an answer or an opinion on this one. But once you have a belief in God established and you allow for divine intervention anything can happen. I don't like to use that too much because I don't like all the implications of God giving us misleading evidence.
Personally I wouldn't have much of a problem as taking the primordial history as an allegory. But due to other religious convictions I have a hard time doing that. I really want to learn more about this stuff and I promise I'll be more knowledgeable in the future.
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PatrickJameson
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Or He could be testing our gullibility.
krazedkat
Regular
Jesus is the SON OF GOD
The bible says this
The bible says this
vrumanuk
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PatrickJameson
Premium Member
You are arguing about little imperfections that you think you are finding. It's not really doing anything to prove or disprove anything.
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Ethan Rosen
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for the third time I will give you this link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_trinity
Please ACTUALLY READ it this time.
Edmund
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But it also says he IS God
Zeroknight
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Alright, if God said to you, I Am here. What would you do? Instantly serve Him right? Why? Because in that scenario, you don't have a choice, now that He has shown you He exists.
By Him not doing that, and instead giving you the choice to believe the internally consistent, historically-accurate Bible, or whatever you want to believe, He is giving you a choice. That, my fellow interweber, is the concept of free will. What you do with it determines your eternity.
ThePizzaGuy92
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Jesus talk: happens every so often on most forum sites. Never ends happily.
My Input: Buddha is where it's at.
My Input: Buddha is where it's at.
ThePizzaGuy92
Veteran
for the first time i will give you this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_fairy
edit: ZOMG LIKE DOUBLE POSTAGE!
SHALL I BE FLAMED?!
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Ethan Rosen
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Once again I will point out that I'm an atheist. krazedkat has made the claim several times now that Christians are worshiping two different God's, and thus the bible contradicts itself by telling you earlier to only worship one god, and I am merely trying to point out to him that according to their bible, no they aren't.
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