Ollie
Legend
Pretty close to the exact frame - https://imgur.com/osYrtQs
Sadly, it looks like a +2. The right palm doesn't look flat to me.
Sadly, it looks like a +2. The right palm doesn't look flat to me.
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[Official] Sreeram Venkatarao - 26.07 3BLD (Penalized +4)
- Thread starter Sessinator
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theROUXbiksCube
Veteran
imo neither does the left :/
Kit Clement
Premium Member
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- 2008CLEM01
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This frame's a little more ambiguous: http://imgur.com/D2Qoz6o
Maybe I'm wrong though. It's not my final decision in the end, anyway.
Robert-Y
Legend
I think maybe some warning should be issued and that all future stops like this one will definitely result in a DNF?...
Ollie
Legend
The box makes the whole thing a bit less clear cut for sure.
But in the frame you posted (25.97), the palm seems to be closer to the sensor, suggesting that his palm is actually moving upwards as the timer stops. Judging by his thumb, I could be wrong too.
Sebastien
Premium Member
This is a very clear +4 in my opinion. In fact I don't think I have ever seen someone attending 40 competition stopping so badly. Too bad for him, in his other videos on Youtube his stopping was very clean.
Mollerz
Swag Overlord
I agree with this, I suggested +4 in a conversation elsewhere. However this could be a result of him not knowing how low the timer is given the fact he is blindfolded, either way I would still give this +4.
Kit Clement
Premium Member
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Yeah, the palms are a tough call, I could see it go either way. After some discussion, I've also realized I've misapplied the consistency in touching the puzzle at the end of the solve -- it should minimally be a +2, maybe +4.
Noahaha
blindmod
So the solve has been +4ed: https://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2008VENK01#333bf
I was not rooting for this to happen, just to be clear.
Cue the old conversation about video evidence etc. etc.
I was not rooting for this to happen, just to be clear.
Cue the old conversation about video evidence etc. etc.
porkynator
Veteran
Wouldn't it be reasonable to be less strict in such cases of bad timer-stopping for blindfolded solves? After all, he couldn't see if he was stopping it the right way.
mark49152
Premium Member
I agree this seems harsh. It looks like he is sat low at the table meaning the timer might be higher than he is used to at home, and his stop looks as if he judged the timer was an inch or two lower than it actually was. He clearly memorized and solved the cube in 26.07 and it seems a shame to lose that result on a technicality, especially one revealed only by video.
On the other hand if rules are not applied to the letter, where will it end?
tseitsei
Veteran
This sucks IMO
+1 My thoughts exactly.
Of course he won't be able to stop the timer exactly accurately/cleanly because you know HE CAN'T SEE IT and can't therefore know where exactly are the pads that he should hit with his hands...
theROUXbiksCube
Veteran
Isn't stopping the timer muscle memory? If the table was lower than he expected wouldn't he have completely turned his hand rather than just karate chopping and stopping because his wrist would be in the turning motion? It sucks, but is the penalty for crappy timer stops
Sebastien
Premium Member
Isn't stopping the timer muscle memory? If the table was lower than he expected wouldn't he have completely turned his hand rather than just karate chopping and stopping because his wrist would be in the turning motion? It sucks, but is the penalty for crappy timer stops
This. In my opinion, being blindfolded or not has nothing to do with the ability to stop the timer in a WCA-compliant way. Especially not, if the competitor has the experience from 40+ competitions.
Apparantly, he is also capable of doing very clean timer stops during fast BLD solves:
While I feel sorry for him that he happened to stop the timer this crappy for this solve, but the WCA regulations are clear on this and hence this is a 30.07 result.
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tseitsei
Veteran
Isn't stopping the timer muscle memory? If the table was lower than he expected wouldn't he have completely turned his hand rather than just karate chopping and stopping because his wrist would be in the turning motion? It sucks, but is the penalty for crappy timer stops
What if the table was higher than he expected?
He releases the cube and immediately starts moving his hands down towards the table and SIMULTANEOUSLY turning his hands so that they would be palms down when he hits the timer.
BUT the table is higher than he assumed so his hands will hit the timer before he has turned them completely flat. And since he was blindfolded he has no way of knowing how close/far his hands are from the timer...
IMO it is not fair to interpret the timer stop rules similarly for BLD solves and sighted solves since you can't see where the timer is and therefore can't control how your hands will hit the timer as well as in sighted solves...
theROUXbiksCube
Veteran
The bold would be an easier point to prove with evidence from the video if he followed through with the karate chop stop into a regular palms down stop, IMO
But instead of that, he slammed his hands down looking like he stopped the rotation of hands directly when they touched the timer and pulling them up and away from touching the cube as well immediately.
This really sucks for him, but violation of the regs is a violation
Noahaha
blindmod
All this is why in BLD I always drop the cube a few inches in front of the timer and then slide my hands back.
Some people criticized my stop on this solve, but I had to make 100% sure that it was a success, since I had two DNFs beforehand.
Some people criticized my stop on this solve, but I had to make 100% sure that it was a success, since I had two DNFs beforehand.
theROUXbiksCube
Veteran
true! better than being penalized is a +1 solve!
lejitcuber
Regular
Is it not part of the new regs to not use video evidence?
the judge didn't look/see anything wrong with it so can it be altered after?
the judge didn't look/see anything wrong with it so can it be altered after?
theROUXbiksCube
Veteran
That's only if something happens to the timer, it cannot be recovered if the timer reset.
"Using video evidence to recover a time that a competitor reset is not allowed. ( #270 | 718f5a0)"
-WCA Regulations 2015
Sorry Sreeram
