Kenneth
Not Alot
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2007
- Messages
- 1,693
- Location
- Kauparve, Hejde, Gotland, Sweden
- WCA ID
- 2005GUST01
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First, is it [wiki]siamese cube[/wiki] or siamese cubes?
I use singular...
Talking about the real thing = siamse 3. (http://www.twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/pdb-search.cgi click that link and use 'siamese' for keyword and you will see images of diffrent types)
What is your method?
I use about Roux. I made myself a new siamese the other day that have better cubes than my old one and had a non lucky 53 seconds as best so far, the average is around a minute.
Anyone who uses Roux will easily solve a simaese but you may use Fridrich or even Petrus. I will later edit this post with examples of how to solve the problem cases for some methods (the cases where you cannot use the normal algs).
But first, any method will have the same start, solve the R/L centres and LF + LB edges, the first block in the Roux method. You may do this later but it will only complicate things, better to have it done:
First block:
Pair up L edges and L centre on either F/B or best, the R side and then place the whole triple using E (or u). If you pair in F or B you place the pices in the middle layer. Often you will have to orient the block before you place it and then you have to move it to the R side using E and do R2. This is why it is better to pair in R, then you put the pieces in the S slice, orient first edge in RD, second in RU, put the centre using E and then R or R' + E2 to place. But far from all cases are easy to do in R, so you have to use all variations to save moves.
FB example 1: r2 U r' R2 U2 u2 r2 R2 u2 R r' u' r' u U' r' U2 u2 r u R2 r2 u R2 u (Using MEGA-SCRAMBLER)
Make the block in B:
Orient one edge: Rw'
Move it to the side: U
Insert centre: M
Move the other edge to position: E'
Block up: Rw
Put in position: u'
Example 2: U' r R U R2 U r2 R U' u2 r' R2 u R u R r' u2 R U u' R' r2 U2 R'
Block up in B again: R' M2 ... orient and place block : u R2 u2
Easy =)
Example 3: U r' U R2 r' U' R2 r U2 R u2 R u2 U R2 U' u2 r U' R2 U' r2 R' U2 u
Make block in R: U Rw' R' U M' E R u2
Use your inspection time to find the moves for the first block in both halfs, start from the hardest and leave the one that is easy to remember for the seconf half.
Second block:
Here I will put examples of how to solve any piece into the block if only one is missing. but also a few basic block building moves.
Missing RD: Put the edge in the M-slice and move it to D using M or M', then do R2 U/U' M/M'/M2 U/U' R2.
RD in position but flipped: R2 U M2 U2 M U R2
RF: R U M/M'/M2 U' R' and the same style for RB (works the same as the RD algs, just a diffrent R move at first)
Corners: the usual 2-gen F2L moves.
CMLL:
Is the same as 2-gen CO, nothing new...
L6E:
Same, same... but some algs that uses face moves (F2 usally) may not work.
Fridrich example:
This is continued from the first example for the left side block (same scramble and same soution for the block).
Cross: U' R U' Rw U Rw U2 Rw'
RB slot: U' R U' R' U Rw' U' R U M' .. the solution to the tricky insert.
RF slot: U' R U2 R' U2 R U' R'
OLL
Corners: R U2 R' U' R U' (R2) U2 R U R' U R .. Anti-Anti but the second from the backside to save one move (two R' makes one R2).
Edges : R U R' U' M' U R U' Rw' ... 3-cycle ELL
U-PLL: M2 U' M U2 M' U' M2
AUF : U'
62 moves in total. The problems are pairing up some pairs, inserting a wrongly oriented pair, long corner orientations (but that goes for any method) and the fact that most OLL does not work so you have to learn sune-OLL or use 2-look as I did here.
Petrus:
Start from the first block and add M-centres and the BD edge (almost a full 2x2x3), you may do a 2x2x2 first but it is easier if you do the first block and add the M-slice parts after that.
You leave the FD edge at fist because you need a keyhole for the EO.
EO :
Move three oriented edges to the R-side by doing U R U R... If there are no oriented edges you use the one in the FU position, do M' to orient and then you can store it using U R, then move the next edge to orient to UB and do M and you have the slice back and two edges oriented.
When you got all three R-side edges oriented you use MU moves to orient the rest and then also place the FD edge.
Now you are ready for 2-gen!, compleate the R-side using RU and then go for [wiki]2GLL[/wiki]
If you do EO like that you will solve the siamese easier than you do using Fridrich, or you will at least use lesser moves on average.
Example:
Using the same scramble and start as the first block example.
M-slice BD : R U' M'
EO:
R-side edges : R U2 R
U-layer edges : M' U' M U2 M' U' M
Compleate 2x2x3 : U M' U2 M
Now the rest is 2-gen:
F2L : R U2 R' U R U R' ... R' U R U' R' U2 R U' R' U R
LL : U R U2 R' U' R U' R' (Antisune) ... U' R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 (U-PLL, Use MU to save moves)
61 moves (STM), 1 better than Fridrich but a shorter U-PLL is possible. Petrus is usally a bit better because the problems with Fridrich is the fact that the edges are having the wrong orientation for pairing up and also placing the pairs in 50% of the cases, doing the EO before that helps. Not to mention the possibility to force a EP skip making it a 1LLL.
I use singular...
Talking about the real thing = siamse 3. (http://www.twistypuzzles.com/cgi-bin/pdb-search.cgi click that link and use 'siamese' for keyword and you will see images of diffrent types)
What is your method?
I use about Roux. I made myself a new siamese the other day that have better cubes than my old one and had a non lucky 53 seconds as best so far, the average is around a minute.
Anyone who uses Roux will easily solve a simaese but you may use Fridrich or even Petrus. I will later edit this post with examples of how to solve the problem cases for some methods (the cases where you cannot use the normal algs).
But first, any method will have the same start, solve the R/L centres and LF + LB edges, the first block in the Roux method. You may do this later but it will only complicate things, better to have it done:
First block:
Pair up L edges and L centre on either F/B or best, the R side and then place the whole triple using E (or u). If you pair in F or B you place the pices in the middle layer. Often you will have to orient the block before you place it and then you have to move it to the R side using E and do R2. This is why it is better to pair in R, then you put the pieces in the S slice, orient first edge in RD, second in RU, put the centre using E and then R or R' + E2 to place. But far from all cases are easy to do in R, so you have to use all variations to save moves.
FB example 1: r2 U r' R2 U2 u2 r2 R2 u2 R r' u' r' u U' r' U2 u2 r u R2 r2 u R2 u (Using MEGA-SCRAMBLER)
Make the block in B:
Orient one edge: Rw'
Move it to the side: U
Insert centre: M
Move the other edge to position: E'
Block up: Rw
Put in position: u'
Example 2: U' r R U R2 U r2 R U' u2 r' R2 u R u R r' u2 R U u' R' r2 U2 R'
Block up in B again: R' M2 ... orient and place block : u R2 u2
Easy =)
Example 3: U r' U R2 r' U' R2 r U2 R u2 R u2 U R2 U' u2 r U' R2 U' r2 R' U2 u
Make block in R: U Rw' R' U M' E R u2
Use your inspection time to find the moves for the first block in both halfs, start from the hardest and leave the one that is easy to remember for the seconf half.
Second block:
Here I will put examples of how to solve any piece into the block if only one is missing. but also a few basic block building moves.
Missing RD: Put the edge in the M-slice and move it to D using M or M', then do R2 U/U' M/M'/M2 U/U' R2.
RD in position but flipped: R2 U M2 U2 M U R2
RF: R U M/M'/M2 U' R' and the same style for RB (works the same as the RD algs, just a diffrent R move at first)
Corners: the usual 2-gen F2L moves.
CMLL:
Is the same as 2-gen CO, nothing new...
L6E:
Same, same... but some algs that uses face moves (F2 usally) may not work.
Fridrich example:
This is continued from the first example for the left side block (same scramble and same soution for the block).
Cross: U' R U' Rw U Rw U2 Rw'
RB slot: U' R U' R' U Rw' U' R U M' .. the solution to the tricky insert.
RF slot: U' R U2 R' U2 R U' R'
OLL
Corners: R U2 R' U' R U' (R2) U2 R U R' U R .. Anti-Anti but the second from the backside to save one move (two R' makes one R2).
Edges : R U R' U' M' U R U' Rw' ... 3-cycle ELL
U-PLL: M2 U' M U2 M' U' M2
AUF : U'
62 moves in total. The problems are pairing up some pairs, inserting a wrongly oriented pair, long corner orientations (but that goes for any method) and the fact that most OLL does not work so you have to learn sune-OLL or use 2-look as I did here.
Petrus:
Start from the first block and add M-centres and the BD edge (almost a full 2x2x3), you may do a 2x2x2 first but it is easier if you do the first block and add the M-slice parts after that.
You leave the FD edge at fist because you need a keyhole for the EO.
EO :
Move three oriented edges to the R-side by doing U R U R... If there are no oriented edges you use the one in the FU position, do M' to orient and then you can store it using U R, then move the next edge to orient to UB and do M and you have the slice back and two edges oriented.
When you got all three R-side edges oriented you use MU moves to orient the rest and then also place the FD edge.
Now you are ready for 2-gen!, compleate the R-side using RU and then go for [wiki]2GLL[/wiki]
If you do EO like that you will solve the siamese easier than you do using Fridrich, or you will at least use lesser moves on average.
Example:
Using the same scramble and start as the first block example.
M-slice BD : R U' M'
EO:
R-side edges : R U2 R
U-layer edges : M' U' M U2 M' U' M
Compleate 2x2x3 : U M' U2 M
Now the rest is 2-gen:
F2L : R U2 R' U R U R' ... R' U R U' R' U2 R U' R' U R
LL : U R U2 R' U' R U' R' (Antisune) ... U' R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2 (U-PLL, Use MU to save moves)
61 moves (STM), 1 better than Fridrich but a shorter U-PLL is possible. Petrus is usally a bit better because the problems with Fridrich is the fact that the edges are having the wrong orientation for pairing up and also placing the pairs in 50% of the cases, doing the EO before that helps. Not to mention the possibility to force a EP skip making it a 1LLL.
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