Seth - yet another method involving 2GLL.

[StachuK1992]

While working on CPLS+2GLL, Cyrus and I came up with a little system we named "Seth" arbitrarily, and this thread is merely to publish the final idea.

Whether this system can be used to benefit ones times, I'm not yet sure.

Here's what a typical CFOP-Seth solve would look like:
Cross
F2L 1, 2, 3
Seth set-up (place DFR and FR, but don't care about orientation)
Seth (81 cases)
2GLL (84 cases)

2 weeks after thinking of this, we've collectively found algs for all of the cases, which will be linked at the bottom. If you can not figure out recognition for corner permutation yourself, please refer yourself to the CPLS+2GLL thread where I've explained it as much as I can for now. The concepts are similar, but is easier for Seth than it is for CPLS (4 edges moving rather than 5, all in LL).

Here are some example solves:

Scramble: B2 D' F L2 B F2 D' U B2 R2 F D' U F B U L F2 D B' D' F B D' B'
Cross: F U' B U' F2 D F' R F
1F2L: y' U' L2 D2 L2 D2 L2
2F2L: z2 D F R' F' R D'
3F2L: L U' L2 U L
Seth Setup: L U2 L'
Seth: y2 U' F' U2 F' U2 R' F' R U2 F2
2GLL: y R' U2 R2 U2 R U2 R' U2 R U2 R2 U2 R' U
Whole Solve = 52 moves
LS+LL = 27
Comment: A normal Seth solve

Scramble: R' F2 D2 F2 B L' R' D2 F R2 U' R' D' R' B' R D2 B' L2 U L U' R2 F U2
Cross: U B2 U F U L'
1F2L: x2 D F R' F' R D'
2F2L: y U R2 U' R' U R2
3F2L: d' R' U2 R d' L' U' L
Seth Setup: R U' R'
Seth: U2 R2 U R' U' R' U2 F R F' R'
2GLL: U' R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R U2
Whole Solve = 51
LS+LL = 25
Comment: Another normal solve.

Scramble: D2 R2 U B D' L' U' D L' B2 F D F' U' L' D F2 L U F2 D2 R' B2 F' R'
Sethcross: B' R' U2 R u' F L' F
1F2L: x2 y' U' R U2 R'
2F2L: U' L' U2 L y' U2 L' U' L
3F2L: U2 R U2 R' U2 R U R'
Seth: y2 U R U R' U2 R U2 R' d R' U' R
2GLL: U y R U2 R2 U' R' U R U' R' U' R' U' R' U2 R U2
Whole Solve = 56
LS+LL = 29
Comment: Sethcross, doing the Seth setup during cross.

Scramble: L' F2 R' L D B2 R F R2 U D' L R2 D U' L2 B2 D' L' B2 F' R' L D' R'
Cross: U' F' R F2
1F2L: x2 U L' U L U R' U' R
Seth Setup: y' R U R'
2F2L: y' U R U' R' U2 R' U' R'
3F2L: U2 R U R' U' R U2 R'
Seth: y' U L' U L F R U2 R' F'
2GLL: U R' U' R U' R' U2 R2 U2 R' U' R U' R'
Whole Solve = 54
LS+LL = 26
Comment: I did Seth Setup early since I didn't see any other good pairs.

Scramble: B L' B' U' L' F2 L2 F' R' D2 F' B2 L' F2 B' L2 D2 U B2 F2 U2 D F2 L F'
Cross: L R F B' L U
1F2L: x2 R' U R U' R U' R2 U R
2F2L: y' U' R U' R' U R U'
Seth Setup: R2 U2 R
3F2L: U' L' U2 L U L' U' L
Seth: y U2 x' U L' U' R2 U' R' U' L U2 x U2 R'
2GLL: U R' U2 R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R' U2
Comment: I did Seth Setup early again, it was right there.

I tried to show a lot of ways that Seth can be implemented.

Without further ado, here are the algs.
Note - these algs are simply a proof-of-concept.
That's my way of saying "they really don't feel nice, but if I looked long enough, I'm sure I could find much much better ones."

Please share how much you hate or love the concept.

-statue and Cyrus C.

 

[cuber952]

this is really cool

 

[BigSams]

Here's what a typical CFOP-Seth solve would look like:
Cross
F2L 1, 2, 3
Seth set-up (place DFR and FR, but don't care about orientation)
Seth (81 cases)
2GLL (84 cases)

Hmmm. So instead of Slot 4 > OLL > PLL, you're doing Seth-up p I'm so lame) > Seth > 2GLL. I might be wrong but it sounds like more algs for slower times - slower because same number of moves (or not?) but more difficult recognition.

 

[cincyaviation]

This could get annoying.
Edit: I like the method itself though, i might just have to learn it.

 

[StachuK1992]

Hmmm. So instead of Slot 4 > OLL > PLL, you're doing Seth-up p I'm so lame) > Seth > 2GLL. I might be wrong but it sounds like more algs for slower times - slower because same number of moves (or not?) but more difficult recognition.

Seth-up is usually about 4 moves long, compared to ~7?
Seth is usually about 10 moves long, compared to...11? (sorry, guessing) The only problem here is the slightly slow recognition.
2GLL is..well...2gen, and usually about 14, compared to PLL at a bit less than that?

Please check my math.

This could get annoying.

Go more in depth?

 

[cincyaviation]

Go more in depth?

You know, the whole method sharing a name with me thing...
Also, i can't get to the algs because i don't have openoffice.

 

[StachuK1992]

You know, the whole method sharing a name with me thing...
Also, i can't get to the algs because i don't have openoffice.

-Sorry, I just like the name Seth. Perhaps you could change your name? Thanks.

- alright, I'll upload a .doc copy in a minute.

 

[BigSams]

The wiki was surprisingly unhelpful in average CE pair, OLL, PLL moves. At this site http://www.freewebs.com/renzolj/fridrichmethod.htm it says CE pairs are 32/4=8, OLL is 10 and PLL is 12. Thus:
CFOP: x + 8 + 10 + 12 = x + 30
Seth: x + 4 + 10 + 14 = x + 28

So I guess it all comes down to whether (save 2 moves on average + recog lags + 2-gen CPLS) will leave one with a faster or slower solve, and if it is faster, is it worth the number of algs. I'll wait and see how Seth disciples fare then.

 

[Cyrus C.]

I don't think recognition will be an issue. Just from checking algs, playing with Seth and writing the example solves, my recognition has gone from no idea how to do it to about 1 second. And 2GLL is super easy.

 

[KYLOL]

"Please share how much you hate or love the concept."

OKAY HOMIE.

Take another look at this ->
Seth: y U2 x' U L' U' R2 U' R' U' L U2 x U2 R'
2GLL: U R' U2 R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R' U2
--------------------------
Seth: y2 U' F' U2 F' U2 R' F' R U2 F2
2GLL: y R' U2 R2 U2 R U2 R' U2 R U2 R2 U2 R' U
------------------------

Now, ask yourself -Does this look like a good method?
Move count and look ahead would be atrocious on a level I can not even describe. The example solves are already +3-5 moves of CFOP/Petrus/Roux methods, so I don't see how this is an advantage?

 

[Cyrus C.]

Please note "they really don't feel nice, but if I looked long enough, I'm sure I could find much much better ones."

Also, how is lookahead atrocious. During F2L, it's no different than CFOP, besides Seth, which is probably easier. In LL, I can't see how it's any more difficult, you just look at the edge cycle.

EDIT: I have a time machine.

 

[StachuK1992]

I never said it was an advantage.
I'm pretty sure I made that clear.

This is merely an idea, maybe to spark off others.

Plus, as I *also* said, these algs can be bettered easily.

 

[BigSams]

lmfao @ kylol. both comment and dp. Duno if he has a point or not... but damn that is one funny dp.

 

[KYLOL]

Please note "they really don't feel nice, but if I looked long enough, I'm sure I could find much much better ones."

Also, how is lookahead atrocious?

Seth Setup: L U2 L'
Seth: y2 U' F' U2 F' U2 R' F' R U2 F2
2GLL: y R' U2 R2 U2 R U2 R' U2 R U2 R2 U2 R' U

Compare that pile of incoherent mess to a CFOP solution.
Like...wat? Why would you do any of that? pointless.

 

[Toad]

KYLOL, read and digest information before you spout out trash in the future please. This method has not been advertised as "THE GRATEST MEFFOD EVAH IT WILL MAYK U FAZTER GARUNTEED" therefore should not be treated as such.

According to my Chrome spell checker "meffod", "evah", "mayk", and "fazter" are all words...

Anyway, I approve of this idea. 'Tis cool.

 

[Diniz]

Seth Setup: L U2 L'
Seth: y2 U' F' U2 F' U2 R' F' R U2 F2
2GLL: y R' U2 R2 U2 R U2 R' U2 R U2 R2 U2 R' U

Compare that pile of incoherent mess to a CFOP solution.
Like...wat? Why would you do any of that? pointless.

Last Slot: U L U' L' U L U L'
OLL: U' R' F R U R' U' F' U R
PLL: U2 R' U R' d' R' F' R2 U' R' U R' F R F U

Same incoherent mess to me...

 

[MichaelP.]

This seems live an innovative idea. I'm not sure how you could get you're recognition so low considering you have 2 things two identify, but I haven't read the recognition technique in the other thread.

 

[Cyrus C.]

Recognition for Seth?

The way I see it, I'll only be looking for CP. Recognizing the pair orientation can be done before it's paired. Recognition for EO, is almost automatic as well, it can be glanced at, as you check for CP. CP, is just meh.

Recognition for 2GLL?

The way I recognize, simply AUF 'til the corners are solved, check the edgecycle, bam.

 

[StachuK1992]

This seems live an innovative idea. I'm not sure how you could get you're recognition so low considering you have 2 things two identify, but I haven't read the recognition technique in the other thread.

The edge orientation is essentially automatic, just like when you're doing EOLL. (just those 4 cases of all done, all flipped, adj flipped, opp flipped)
The corner permutation is the only thing you have to think about, and it's the same thing that Dan Brown teaches in his beginner tutorial, iirc. He uses Niklas to do CP, using nearly the same recog method I'm using.
I remember being fast at "Niklas recognition" as I called it back when I did it, so I don't see why this is any different.

Edit: I need to stop being ninja'd

 

[KYLOL]

KYLOL, read and digest information before you spout out trash in the future please. This method has not been advertised as "THE GRATEST MEFFOD EVAH IT WILL MAYK U FAZTER GARUNTEED" therefore should not be treated as such.

According to my Chrome spell checker "meffod", "evah", "mayk", and "fazter" are all words...

Anyway, I approve of this idea. 'Tis cool.

If it isn't supposed to be very fast, or even efficient with move count, then why make an entire thread about it? Go away, troll. /backhanded.

Also, Diniz - Maybe it's incoherent because you typed it wrong. I don't see OLL/PLL riddled with x,y and z moves. Nice try though.
If it's not fast , or efficient...then what is the point?