Prayers for sale $1 yayay!

[fanwuq]

Research actually shows prayer has a reverse placebo effect. The prayer group experiences much more stress because they're under higher pressure of performing better than the non-prayer group, and therefore perform worse.

Interesting. Would you mind linking me to the paper?

 

[StachuK1992]

Stephan posted that link a while back, but I remembering him removing it. He'd know where it is.
->fanwuq

 

[Stefan]

Almost correct. The study I mentioned was about medical effects:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

luke1984's description sounds like something else which I don't know about.

 

[Neroflux]

I wonder if you'll pray for my school life if I send a dollar over...

 

[d4m4s74]

this is the perfect placebo, I'll order one or two for the next compo

 

[Hadley4000]

Almost correct. The study I mentioned was about medical effects:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

luke1984's description sounds like something else which I don't know about.

The thing is, though, it can raise spirits and confidence in the person. That can effect how you turn out. My brother says that he thinks the good energy people have been putting out is helping him in his recovery. Granted, he is doing a lot of other things(vitamins, teas, yoga, meditation, and, well, chemotherapy). But good spirits really can help.

 

[luke1984]

Research actually shows prayer has a reverse placebo effect. The prayer group experiences much more stress because they're under higher pressure of performing better than the non-prayer group, and therefore perform worse.

Interesting. Would you mind linking me to the paper?

Almost correct. The study I mentioned was about medical effects:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

luke1984's description sounds like something else which I don't know about.

I can't find the paper I was referring to, but it was about sportsmen performing slightly worse when prayed for by a large group.

I did find this though, also about medical effects:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/03/31/MNG0VI1BCH1.DTL&hw=heart&sn=007&sc=330

Almost correct. The study I mentioned was about medical effects:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html

luke1984's description sounds like something else which I don't know about.

The thing is, though, it can raise spirits and confidence in the person. That can effect how you turn out. My brother says that he thinks the good energy people have been putting out is helping him in his recovery. Granted, he is doing a lot of other things(vitamins, teas, yoga, meditation, and, well, chemotherapy). But good spirits really can help.

I agree good spirits can help, but when a large group of people is praying for you to get better and you don't see immidiate results, it causes a lot of stress.

I also do think that it makes a difference whether 1 person is praying for you or 100 people.

Also, even if you do believe in god, why would you think praying for something will help you get it? If you believe what the bible says than you must believe god has a plan for everyone, so why would you give you what you want only if you pray for it.
And if two equally skilled cubers both just as religious pray to get the best time, who will win? The answer is very simple, the person who has te best solve at that time. And getting the best solve depends on method, speed, recognition etc. and not by talking to your imaginairy friend...

 

[d4m4s74]

If you pray for something, and you don't get it, it's "god's will"

but if it's god's will anyway, why pray?

 

[Rama]

If you pray for something, and you don't get it, it's "god's will"

but if it's god's will anyway, why pray?

In Africa people from different villages traveled half a day to pray for rain. When they arrived someone asked if they brought umbrella's with them, no one brought one. So they were send back to be prepared for rain.
Well eventually they prayed and hay! Rain!

 

[brunson]

Well eventually they prayed and hay! Rain!

If you're waiting at a stop light and you lean on the horn long enough, the light will change to green. It's a proven fact, try it.

 

[mazei]

I sense religious arguments. Better stop.

 

[Rama]

Well eventually they prayed and hay! Rain!

If you're waiting at a stop light and you lean on the horn long enough, the light will change to green. It's a proven fact, try it.

You want a fine with that?

 

[d4m4s74]

http://instantrimshot.com/, always works

 

[Rama]

http://instantrimshot.com/, always works

Haha, yeah, but the outfit on my previous post is just epic.
Oops! I just used the 'E' word.

 

[Hadley4000]

I agree good spirits can help, but when a large group of people is praying for you to get better and you don't see immidiate results, it causes a lot of stress.

Not the case with my brother.

 

[Stefan]

The prayer group experiences much more stress because they're under higher pressure of performing better than the non-prayer group, and therefore perform worse.

Is there evidence to support this explanation?

 

[fanwuq]

I agree good spirits can help, but when a large group of people is praying for you to get better and you don't see immidiate results, it causes a lot of stress.

I don't think that is the reason.

"It may have made them uncertain, wondering am I so sick they had to call in their prayer team?" Dr. Bethea said.

The subjects were told that they are being prayed for; they can only accept or reject the study. I think that is very different from requesting prayer yourself. Also, how do you know that the families of the control group are not secretly praying for the patients? This study is pretty flawed; perhaps a carefully worded survey would be better.
There are too many factors for a controlled experiment. People of different religions and cultures would behave in very different ways in this situation. This are also issues with the sample group. There aren't that many heart patients to be able to randomly choose an evenly distributed group. The subject in study is prayer, so studying any patients should fine. They should also further divide the groups into their opinions on prayer's healing power.
Why are cardiologists studying this? This type of work should be done by psychologists.

Consider these papers:
Characteristics of adults who use prayer as an alternative therapy.
http://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=s3h&AN=SPHS-980855&site=ehost-live

Does Prayer Influence the Success of in Vitro Fertilization–Embryo Transfer?
http://www.uic.edu/classes/psych/He...ertilization, JrRepMed-Skeptical Inquirer.doc
I believe this study should be more accurate because the subjects willingly participated and they were not really sick, so they would not think the pray is offensive.

 

[luke1984]

The prayer group experiences much more stress because they're under higher pressure of performing better than the non-prayer group, and therefore perform worse.

Is there evidence to support this explanation?

I believe there is, I'll look it up sometime. I think I have an issue of Scientific American (magazine) somewhere where this is talked about.

People in general are very bad at performing under most forms of stress. Our adrenalin glands are way to big and our pre-frontal lobes too small.

 

[Ton]

In the UK open 2006 a young cuber was judging me, he made many mistakes where I lost my concentration and I did a 26, and yes next solve he was judging me again, instead of get angry or upset, I asked God to bless him and I got a 13.68 PR. So when you are upset or angry try to do the opposite of what you feel.