PLL partial prediction by checking 2 CPs' face

[Tito_H]

I use 2-side PLL recognition, and the average time from finishing OLL to starting PLL is as follows:

A. Easy cases: 0.5 sec.
B. Normal cases: 1.0 sec.
C. Tough cases: 1.5 sec.

The easy cases for me are H/Z perms, “bar” shown for U perm, headlight“ or “bar” shown for Adj. PLL, and “V shape” shown for A/V/Y perms.

The normal cases are all patterns with “block(s)” shown. (“block” is a pair with the same color.)

The tough cases are all other patterns.
From the fact above described, I want to reduce my recognition time especially for the tough cases.

Additionally, sometimes I am confused of Diag. PLL with Adj. PLL, caused by my omission to check “bookend” when a “block” catches my eye first.

In parallel to keep practicing more, I have decided to learn and apply PLL prediction before OLL.

As my 2-side PLL recognition time is in 0.5 - 1.5 sec. range, I prefer not to spend more than 0.5 sec. for the prediction. I expect more than 0.5 sec. benefit in the tough cases.

I have visited many web sites, looking for some easy way, including ROLL, CP prediction, know-how in YouTube, but could not find the suitable method for me.

Looking at the 4 sides of Ra perm one day, one idea came upon me. Although it is far from a complete prediction method, it is light weight (only 2 CPs’ face should be checked), and tell us by 50% on which side “headlight” appears.

The method is as follows.

<Preparation>

1. Remember the color of the front face of the corner pieces FUL and FUR.
2. Set up (scramble) cube with any OLL item.
3. Look for the color of the above item 1, and memorize their position and face direction.

That’s it.

For example, let me explain with OLL45 (T shpe).

1. In my case, I position my cube with Yellow face up and Blue face front before scramble. So, the color of FUL and FUR is blue.
2. The scramble is F U R U' R' F'.
3. The Blue color appears on RUF and FUL. So, I memorize these positions.

The next is what this method predicts.

<Prediction>

1. If these 2 positions have the same color, the PLL will be either EPLL or Adj. swap with “headlight” in front.
2. If they have the opposite color, it will be either Diag. swap or Adj. swap with “headlight” in back.
3. If they have the adjacent color, it will be Adj. swap with “headlight” in either left or right.

So, using the same OLL45 as an example, if RUF and FUL have the same color, it is enough to check if L or R face has headlight, to know either EPLL or Adj. swap.

If they have the opposite color, it is enough to check if the “bookends” are of the same color, to know Diag. or Adj. swap.

And if they have the adjacent color, your 2-side PLL recognition will have “headlight” on a side face by 50%. if not, it is surely on the opposite side.

I know it is necessary to check 3 (not 4) CPs' face in OLL to predict exactly on which face “headlight” will be, but it would take me more than 0.5 sec.

With my above described method, it takes me less than 0.5 sec. in most of the OLL patterns. (It is not needed to look at B face in the 52 of 57 OLL patterns in my case.)

I would like some cubers to give me their opinion on the PLL prediction method which I have started to apply.

If this method was already discussed in this forum in the past, I am sorry, but it would be appreciated to let me know its URL.

 

[artless1der]

I use 2-side PLL recognition, and the average time from finishing OLL to starting PLL is as follows:

A. Easy cases: 0.5 sec.
B. Normal cases: 1.0 sec.
C. Tough cases: 1.5 sec.

The easy cases for me are H/Z perms, “bar” shown for U perm, headlight“ or “bar” shown for Adj. PLL, and “V shape” shown for A/V/Y perms.

The normal cases are all patterns with “block(s)” shown. (“block” is a pair with the same color.)

The tough cases are all other patterns.
From the fact above described, I want to reduce my recognition time especially for the tough cases.

Additionally, sometimes I am confused of Diag. PLL with Adj. PLL, caused by my omission to check “bookend” when a “block” catches my eye first.

In parallel to keep practicing more, I have decided to learn and apply PLL prediction before OLL.

As my 2-side PLL recognition time is in 0.5 - 1.5 sec. range, I prefer not to spend more than 0.5 sec. for the prediction. I expect more than 0.5 sec. benefit in the tough cases.

I have visited many web sites, looking for some easy way, including ROLL, CP prediction, know-how in YouTube, but could not find the suitable method for me.

Looking at the 4 sides of Ra perm one day, one idea came upon me. Although it is far from a complete prediction method, it is light weight (only 2 CPs’ face should be checked), and tell us by 50% on which side “headlight” appears.

The method is as follows.

<Preparation>

1. Remember the color of the front face of the corner pieces FUL and FUR.
2. Set up (scramble) cube with any OLL item.
3. Look for the color of the above item 1, and memorize their position and face direction.

That’s it.

For example, let me explain with OLL45 (T shpe).

1. In my case, I position my cube with Yellow face up and Blue face front before scramble. So, the color of FUL and FUR is blue.
2. The scramble is F U R U' R' F'.
3. The Blue color appears on RUF and FUL. So, I memorize these positions.

The next is what this method predicts.

<Prediction>

1. If these 2 positions have the same color, the PLL will be either EPLL or Adj. swap with “headlight” in front.
2. If they have the opposite color, it will be either Diag. swap or Adj. swap with “headlight” in back.
3. If they have the adjacent color, it will be Adj. swap with “headlight” in either left or right.

So, using the same OLL45 as an example, if RUF and FUL have the same color, it is enough to check if L or R face has headlight, to know either EPLL or Adj. swap.

If they have the opposite color, it is enough to check if the “bookends” are of the same color, to know Diag. or Adj. swap.

And if they have the adjacent color, your 2-side PLL recognition will have “headlight” on a side face by 50%. if not, it is surely on the opposite side.

I know it is necessary to check 3 (not 4) CPs' face in OLL to predict exactly on which face “headlight” will be, but it would take me more than 0.5 sec.

With my above described method, it takes me less than 0.5 sec. in most of the OLL patterns. (It is not needed to look at B face in the 52 of 57 OLL patterns in my case.)

I would like some cubers to give me their opinion on the PLL prediction method which I have started to apply.

If this method was already discussed in this forum in the past, I am sorry, but it would be appreciated to let me know its URL.

nice fill out explain bro
. . .
umm, JPerm did make a YT video about 2-sided recognition
about 5-6yrs ago

 

[Tito_H]

nice fill out explain bro
. . .
umm, JPerm did make a YT video about 2-sided recognition
about 5-6yrs ago

Thank you. I have watched J-Perm's video about 2-side recognition and some hint for PLL prediction:

Also I liked this video by Cubing World, even though it was made 9 years ago.

But their method is “checking 3 or 4 faces of CPs” for PLL prediction…

 

[artless1der]

Good stuff

iirc Brody the Cuber also has some tips on that kind of stuff
and more
not like, more than JPerm...
just more than "2side-PLL recog" and "know your AUF" type stuff )
He has several videos just about some real good F2L solutions/tios/tricks

 

[Tito_H]

Good stuff

iirc Brody the Cuber also has some tips on that kind of stuff
and more
not like, more than JPerm...
just more than "2side-PLL recog" and "know your AUF" type stuff )
He has several videos just about some real good F2L solutions/tios/tricks

Thank you.
Yes, I could see “2-side PLL recog” in many web sites, but couldn't find so much on “PLL prediction”. That's why I presented my idea in this thread.

 

[JDAW6]

Or you could be like me and predict pll from every EO solved OLL case. I just memorised lmao.

 

[Tito_H]

I am interested in your way. Can you explain how you predict PLL by some examples? And also, sorry, but what does “Imao” mean?

 

[Tito_H]

I document here a method of PLL partial prediction, checking “3” CPs' face. This method shows us the PLL will be EPLL, Diag. PLL, or Adj. PLL with precise “headlight” position.

The 2 CPs' faces are the same ones which I described in my previous article. I call them “base faces”.

The additional 1 CP face is the BUR (Back Upper Right) of the OLL. I call it “extra face”. It is important not to be confused with BUL, which is the same color as BUR.

For example, let me explain with OLL45 (T shape).

1. In my case, I position my cube with Yellow face up and blue face front before scramble. So, the extra face is BUR (green color).
2. Scramble by reversing your OLL. In my case it is F U R U' R' F'.
3. The BUR goes to BUL. So, it is the “extra face” of this OLL.

(The “base faces” are RUF and FUL, as explained in my previous article.)

The next is what this method predicts.

<Prediction>
Case 1. Base faces are same color, and extra face is opposite color to them, then PLL will be EPLL.

Case 2. Base faces are same color, and extra face is adjacent color to them, then it will be Adj. PLL with “headlight” in front.

Case 3. Base faces are opposite color, and extra face is same color to one of the base faces, then it will be Diag. PLL.

Case 4. Base faces are opposite color, and extra face is adjacent to them, it will be Adj. PLL with “headlight” in back.

Case 5. Base faces are adjacent color, and extra face is same color to one of the base faces, then it will be Adj. PLL with “headlight” in left.

Case 6. Base faces are adjacent color, and extra face is opposite color to one of the base faces, then it will be Adj. PLL with “headlight” in right.

It is easy to distinguish Case 1 from 2.
One of the way to distinguish Case 3 from 4, and 5 from 6, is that the former (3 & 5) has 2 colors and the latter (4 & 6) has 3 colors in total.

Now that Diag. PLL can be predicted precisely, it is possible to apply corresponding one of the 6 OLLCP for each OLL, to change it to EPLL, if you want.

Also, you can move “headlight” to left side, using U/U2'/U', without pause before PLL, if you want.

Nevertheless, I am not good at looking for 3 CP faces in 0.5 sec., so I am using 2 CP faces checking method in stead of this method.

 

[zzcuberman]

I use 2-side PLL recognition, and the average time from finishing OLL to starting PLL is as follows:

A. Easy cases: 0.5 sec.
B. Normal cases: 1.0 sec.
C. Tough cases: 1.5 sec.

The easy cases for me are H/Z perms, “bar” shown for U perm, headlight“ or “bar” shown for Adj. PLL, and “V shape” shown for A/V/Y perms.

The normal cases are all patterns with “block(s)” shown. (“block” is a pair with the same color.)

The tough cases are all other patterns.
From the fact above described, I want to reduce my recognition time especially for the tough cases.

Additionally, sometimes I am confused of Diag. PLL with Adj. PLL, caused by my omission to check “bookend” when a “block” catches my eye first.

In parallel to keep practicing more, I have decided to learn and apply PLL prediction before OLL.

As my 2-side PLL recognition time is in 0.5 - 1.5 sec. range, I prefer not to spend more than 0.5 sec. for the prediction. I expect more than 0.5 sec. benefit in the tough cases.

I have visited many web sites, looking for some easy way, including ROLL, CP prediction, know-how in YouTube, but could not find the suitable method for me.

Looking at the 4 sides of Ra perm one day, one idea came upon me. Although it is far from a complete prediction method, it is light weight (only 2 CPs’ face should be checked), and tell us by 50% on which side “headlight” appears.

The method is as follows.

<Preparation>

1. Remember the color of the front face of the corner pieces FUL and FUR.
2. Set up (scramble) cube with any OLL item.
3. Look for the color of the above item 1, and memorize their position and face direction.

That’s it.

For example, let me explain with OLL45 (T shpe).

1. In my case, I position my cube with Yellow face up and Blue face front before scramble. So, the color of FUL and FUR is blue.
2. The scramble is F U R U' R' F'.
3. The Blue color appears on RUF and FUL. So, I memorize these positions.

The next is what this method predicts.

<Prediction>

1. If these 2 positions have the same color, the PLL will be either EPLL or Adj. swap with “headlight” in front.
2. If they have the opposite color, it will be either Diag. swap or Adj. swap with “headlight” in back.
3. If they have the adjacent color, it will be Adj. swap with “headlight” in either left or right.

So, using the same OLL45 as an example, if RUF and FUL have the same color, it is enough to check if L or R face has headlight, to know either EPLL or Adj. swap.

If they have the opposite color, it is enough to check if the “bookends” are of the same color, to know Diag. or Adj. swap.

And if they have the adjacent color, your 2-side PLL recognition will have “headlight” on a side face by 50%. if not, it is surely on the opposite side.

I know it is necessary to check 3 (not 4) CPs' face in OLL to predict exactly on which face “headlight” will be, but it would take me more than 0.5 sec.

With my above described method, it takes me less than 0.5 sec. in most of the OLL patterns. (It is not needed to look at B face in the 52 of 57 OLL patterns in my case.)

I would like some cubers to give me their opinion on the PLL prediction method which I have started to apply.

If this method was already discussed in this forum in the past, I am sorry, but it would be appreciated to let me know its URL.

check out JOLL and ROLL by Jayden Mcneil. He has a youtube video or two with it

 

[espeed]

I learned ROLL CO by CO. So first I learned Pi recognition. Then I picked every OLL with Pi CO and remembered the CP/Headlights for PLL. Often you have a reference Case (let's say Pi OCLL) for the other cases. For example: F(sexy)*2F' is same outcome as Pi but with U2

Edit: Typo CO by CO not CP by CP

 

[Tito_H]

check out JOLL and ROLL by Jayden Mcneil. He has a youtube video or two with it

Thank you.
Actually I have also checked out them, and I think I understood their idea.
ROLL can be used to know if the PLL will be either EPLL, Diag PLL, or Adj. PLL, but NOT to give us on which face the “headlight” will be positioned, according with the following info.

ROLL: A method for predicting corner permutation after OLL

Making this write up to go along with the edge recognition one I made a few days ago. Don't learn this until you know CP recognition from something like CLL on 2x2, or COLL from 3x3. The idea with ROLL starts with knowing what type of CP you'll get after your OLL alg. It'll either be...

www.speedsolving.com

 

[Tito_H]

I learned ROLL CO by CO. So first I learned Pi recognition. Then I picked every OLL with Pi CO and remembered the CP/Headlights for PLL. Often you have a reference Case (let's say Pi OCLL) for the other cases. For example: F(sexy)*2F' is same outcome as Pi but with U2

Edit: Typo CO by CO not CP by CP

Thank you for your comment.
I assume that you should have memorized much much, to cover all OLL, case by case.
If you are ok, could you give us how to know where the “headlight” will be positioned concretely, using the OLL45 (T shape), as an example.
I would like to understand your method well.
Thank you in advance.

 

[zzcuberman]

Thank you.
Actually I have also checked out them, and I think I understood their idea.
ROLL can be used to know if the PLL will be either EPLL, Diag PLL, or Adj. PLL, but NOT to give us on which face the “headlight” will be positioned, according with the following info.

ROLL: A method for predicting corner permutation after OLL

Making this write up to go along with the edge recognition one I made a few days ago. Don't learn this until you know CP recognition from something like CLL on 2x2, or COLL from 3x3. The idea with ROLL starts with knowing what type of CP you'll get after your OLL alg. It'll either be...

www.speedsolving.com

It predicts where the headlights will be. Watch jaydens videos on his corner permutation prediction. He predicts where the headlights will be

 

[Tito_H]

It predicts where the headlights will be. Watch jaydens videos on his corner permutation prediction. He predicts where the headlights will be

Thank you for your comment.
My interpretation was wrong. I apologize.

I now understand by the following blog and video that full ROLL predicts the “headlight” position, using CP prediction.

A beginners guide to ROLL for PLL prediction — Jayden McNeill Speedcubing Blog

Truth be told, I'm actually not someone who has gone all in on ROLL/JOLL (yet) due to being busy/lazy with my free time, so I get it

www.jaydenmcneillcubing.com

I tred to check by myself how to predict “headlight” position, using OLL48 (L shape) and Mr. Tao's following ROLL/JOLL generator app.

ROLL & JOLL

My alg. is F R U R' U' R U R' U' F'.

1. I pasted this alg. in the box of the app, and push Submit button.

2. The following result (screen copy attached) shows up.

3. Now I know that my alg is a “Pi-case” & “no swap” type (refer to the leftmost picture.)

4. The PLL prediction is as follows. (This is one of the ways.)

Case 1. UFR = UBR, & UFL opp to UBL
PLL will be EPLL.

Case 2. UFL = UBL, & UFR opp to UBR
It will be Diag. PLL.

Case 3. UFL = UBR, & UFR opp to UBL
It will be Adj. PLL with “headlight” on back.

Case 4. UFR = UBL, & UFL opp to UBR
It will be Adj. PLL with “headlight” on front.

Case 5. UFL = UBR, & UFR = UBL
It will be Adj. PLL with “headlight” on left.

Case 6. UFL = UBL, & UFR = UBR
It will be Adj. PLL with “headlight” on right.

I also tried it by OLL45 (T shape).
The result was different from that, since my alg for OLL45 is a “U-case” & “diag swap” type (screen copy attached).

So, it seems to me that it is necessary to memorize the corresponding 6 patterns (like OLLCP) and AUF per OLL, to predict exact position of “headlight”.

As I am not an advanced cuber, and my age does not allow me to memorize so much, or remind me which pattern is in short time, I will keep sticking to my method (2 CPs' face partial prediction), at least for the time being.