Older cubers discussions

[h2f]

@Mike, thats exact order how I've learnt solving cube 17 years ago.

 

[MarcelP]

Then I got into speed cubing last July when I saw a high school kid's cube. .

Yeah, you are progressing very quickly. You avg 23 secs in less than a year. I took a whole year to become sub 30.. Another year to become sub 25 and another 2 years to become sub 20... Just for reference.. LOL

 

[mafergut]

My beginner's approach is a bit different of this you propose Michael. I didn't know about the use of a sune and a lefty sune to orient corners, that's nice, I always learn something new in this forum

My approach, and the one I use for Match the Scramble, where I can't use CFOP because I can't get my mind over the completely unmatching colors, goes as follows (I also use it for Megaminx, so maybe I already mentioned it here):
- EO with F sexy F', also inverse-sexy and f sexy f' (basically 1st look of 2L OLL)
- EP with Sune
- CP with Niklas or R' D R, bring the next spot over with U/U'/U2, R' D' R... For MTS I just use Niklas as it is an easy alg, while the commutator is difficult to use when the colors don't match.
- CO with (R' D' R D)x2 or (R F' R' F)x2 (or x4 if needed or using the inverse x2), bring the next corner over with U/U'/U2, rinse and repeat
Your approach certainly needs less algs and maybe even less steps (or repetition of algs) as doing CP before EP you can always find an already permuted corner, meanwhile, I sometimes find the 4 corners wrongly permuted and need several Niklas (at least two, or even more if not using Niklas' mirror).

I had never realized (maybe I knew but never really used it to my advantage) that Sune does not alter the relative position of the corners, just twists 3 of them and cycles 3 edges around. This reminds me that I need to pay much more attention to what my algs really do (like knowing the CP case of my OLLs, etc.).

 

[Logiqx]

My beginner's approach is a bit different of this you propose Michael. I didn't know about the use of a sune and a lefty sune to orient corners, that's nice, I always learn something new in this forum

My approach, and the one I use for Match the Scramble, where I can't use CFOP because I can't get my mind over the completely unmatching colors, goes as follows (I also use it for Megaminx, so maybe I already mentioned it here):
- EO with F sexy F', also inverse-sexy and f sexy f' (basically 1st look of 2L OLL)
- EP with Sune
- CP with Niklas or R' D R, bring the next spot over with U/U'/U2, R' D' R... For MTS I just use Niklas as it is an easy alg, while the commutator is difficult to use when the colors don't match.
- CO with (R' D' R D)x2 or (R F' R' F)x2 (or x4 if needed or using the inverse x2), bring the next corner over with U/U'/U2, rinse and repeat
Your approach certainly needs less algs and maybe even less steps (or repetition of algs) as doing CP before EP you can always find an already permuted corner, meanwhile, I sometimes find the 4 corners wrongly permuted and need several Niklas (at least two, or even more if not using Niklas' mirror).

I had never realized (maybe I knew but never really used it to my advantage) that Sune does not alter the relative position of the corners, just twists 3 of them and cycles 3 edges around. This reminds me that I need to pay much more attention to what my algs really do (like knowing the CP case of my OLLs, etc.).

That's the Dan Brown (pogobat) approach. "Hey World"...

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[Shaky Hands]

If I can share something that I struggled with when starting cubing it was that none of the tutorials I used gave a proper explanation of the rotation of some sides. They explained the ones used in most of the algorithms, i.e.: R, R', U, U', F and F', but didn't go into L, B, D and their primes. As a result of that it took me a while to realise that the movement was relative to the centre of the cube.

So, I thought L would move the same way relative to me as R (in this case, away from me); and similarly with D compared to U and B compared to F. I've made a point of ensuring the few people I've shown cubing to have known this up-front as it wasn't obvious to me and it's one of the basic points that seems to get missed. I think my first solve took about 6 hours because of this.

 

[Jason Green]

If I can share something that I struggled with when starting cubing it was that none of the tutorials I used gave a proper explanation of the rotation of some sides. They explained the ones used in most of the algorithms, i.e.: R, R', U, U', F and F', but didn't go into L, B, D and their primes. As a result of that it took me a while to realise that the movement was relative to the centre of the cube.

So, I thought L would move the same way relative to me as R (in this case, away from me); and similarly with D compared to U and B compared to F. I've made a point of ensuring the few people I've shown cubing to have known this up-front as it wasn't obvious to me and it's one of the basic points that seems to get missed. I think my first solve took about 6 hours because of this.

Ouch that would be painful! Yes I always emphasize it is clockwise when you are facing that side, and usually give the example R is this way, but L is this way because you have to imagine looking straight at the left side.

Plus I usually watch them doing algs for a bit and tell them when they turn wrong. I helped an older (than me) man at the last comp solve a 2x2 for the first time. He was quite tickled. He used my cheat sheets and help, but I only caught him turning the wrong direction once.

 

[Logiqx]

If I can share something that I struggled with when starting cubing it was that none of the tutorials I used gave a proper explanation of the rotation of some sides. They explained the ones used in most of the algorithms, i.e.: R, R', U, U', F and F', but didn't go into L, B, D and their primes. As a result of that it took me a while to realise that the movement was relative to the centre of the cube.

So, I thought L would move the same way relative to me as R (in this case, away from me); and similarly with D compared to U and B compared to F. I've made a point of ensuring the few people I've shown cubing to have known this up-front as it wasn't obvious to me and it's one of the basic points that seems to get missed. I think my first solve took about 6 hours because of this.

Agreed. B & D are particularly confusing which is why I avoid them in the beginners method I teach. The same applies for slice turns and x / z rotations.

I taught my other half without notation... "bring the pair to the top, around the front, restore the cross, ...". This is easy for Niklas and Sune and the reason I chose them as opposed to A-perm and U-perm. She refused to be taught by letters and wanted to know what was happening to the pieces. Whilst it is tricky to explain to a beginner why Niklas and Sune have their effect you can easily explain that taking pairs out of the F2L and putting them back in slightly differently will affect the LL. This is one of the influences of how / why I settled on this method and the specific algs.

 

[Selkie]

@Andy

Yup the starting orientation of the clock I think is the exact reason. Heh, live and learn

@David

I don't see any reason the Tornado wouldn't be good for Roux. It has very nice M slices

Yup as others mentioned had vehicle issues and ended up missing Pyraminx and 4x4. Disappointed but there is always next time.

@Michael

Very nice time. A quarter of the way from sub 20 to sub 10

The teaching tips are awesome. My son has never shown any interest in cubing but has told me today he wants to learn so this is very useful information.

Also any chance you could update your over 40 statistics. I find it a great source of motivation and would love to see how it looks after Exeter Open

@Grzegorz

Great 3x3 times, you must feel globally sub 20 now?

@Megaminx Race

After a nervous first solve at Exeter Open was pleased with the second solve of 3:30.90 but was never going to make average cut of 2:30 though that is now a goal.

Just done an average of 20 with the following bests

best time: 3:10.36
best avg5: 3:24.02 (σ = 7.06)
best avg12: 3:42.66 (σ = 20.28)

 

[Logiqx]

Very nice time. A quarter of the way from sub 20 to sub 10

The teaching tips are awesome. My son has never shown any interest in cubing but has told me today he wants to learn so this is very useful information.

Also any chance you could update your over 40 statistics. I find it a great source of motivation and would love to see how it looks after Exeter Open

I watched your 3x3 solves whilst the update script for the over-40's ran. GJ

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions

 

[Selkie]

I watched your 3x3 solves whilst the update script for the over-40's ran. GJ

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions

Thank you very much indeed sir. On both counts

Wow, Bruchem and Roux to beat on over 40 3x3 average. I'd hope to catch Gilles but don't think I'll ever catch Ron

Some awesome progress by Mark as well in the "wrinkly rankings"

 

[Jason Green]

I watched your 3x3 solves whilst the update script for the over-40's ran. GJ

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?54128-How-fast-are-the-over-40-s-in-competitions

I was going to bug you after my KC comp in a couple weeks. If I don't have any improvements I won't have a reason to. Thanks again for this, motivating indeed!

BTW, some of us from Dallas comp got asked about helping with the Beyond Rubik's exhibit in San Antonio. I spoke with them and will be going on May 7-8 to walk around and show how to cube, and they are going to pay for our hotel for the weekend! It's about a 5 hour drive for us.

 

[Logiqx]

I was going to bug you after my KC comp in a couple weeks. If I don't have any improvements I won't have a reason to. Thanks again for this, motivating indeed!

BTW, some of us from Dallas comp got asked about helping with the Beyond Rubik's exhibit in San Antonio. I spoke with them and will be going on May 7-8 to walk around and show how to cube, and they are going to pay for our hotel for the weekend! It's about a 5 hour drive for us.

Sure. Remind me when they're on the WCA website.

Beyond Rubiks sounds fun. Enjoy!

 

[newtonbase]

Yeah, you are progressing very quickly. You avg 23 secs in less than a year. I took a whole year to become sub 30.. Another year to become sub 25 and another 2 years to become sub 20... Just for reference.. LOL

2 years and I'm still not sub 30s. It's a main goal for this year but might not happen.

I've spent both of my 3 day Pyraminx training sessions learning keyhole and I have to say it seems like wasted time. Unless I get a decent scramble where I can start planning past the first 3 edges it can be very slow. Although I know most cases now recognition is really slow. I just can't get a feel for the puzzle and it's the only one I did get any PBs in at Manchester. I'll give it one last chance (using LBL) at London then leave it in favour of proper shaped puzzles.

 

[Shaky Hands]

2 years and I'm still not sub 30s. It's a main goal for this year but might not happen.

Mark, I found the Race to Sub-30 here on the speedsolving forums a really good motivator for this. Well worth taking part in. Managed to graduate a few weeks ago and even though it didn't fully pay off in Exeter, my comp average there was 6 seconds ahead of Manchester's.

I've watched some of your solves and know you'll get there at some point. Good luck fella.

 

[mafergut]

Mark, I found the Race to Sub-30 here on the speedsolving forums a really good motivator for this. Well worth taking part in. Managed to graduate a few weeks ago and even though it didn't fully pay off in Exeter, my comp average there was 6 seconds ahead of Manchester's.

I've watched some of your solves and know you'll get there at some point. Good luck fella.

Yeah, the race threads and, most of all, this thread are very good motivators. Seeing Chris up there in the elite of the oldies, close to legends like Roux and Ron van Bruchem is really impressive. I wish I could be close to them someday

Enviado desde mi Nexus 4 mediante Tapatalk

 

[h2f]

@Grzegorz

Great 3x3 times, you must feel globally sub 20 now?

I think of myself as being low 20 because I got many ao100 with low 20. I'm happy of getting sub20 ao100 but I must redo this few times. A lot of my solves over 20 was in a range 20-22 and thats good factor showing were I am. In the end I was so nervous and my hands felt like being of wood.

 

[Logiqx]

@Mark: Just watched your 4BLD. Lovely smooth turning and the blind aspect ain't bad either.

Very impressive!

 

[Jason Green]

Niklas - R U' L' U R' U' L (U) swaps corners on right
FUR - F (U R U' R') F'

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Gosh, I don't think I did CP since last July. Niklas swaps the ones from the left and they end up on the right, before the last U, right? So U2 to have the left side swapped... Anyway I got confused by it a bit when I tried to do it.

I never did Sune lefty Sune for EP either, cool!

Yeah, you are progressing very quickly. You avg 23 secs in less than a year. I took a whole year to become sub 30.. Another year to become sub 25 and another 2 years to become sub 20... Just for reference.. LOL

I think you also learned CN which might have been slower progress at first but paid off more later. I tried some non-white/yellow last night and I'm around 1 minute. Thanks for the encouragement!

2 years and I'm still not sub 30s. It's a main goal for this year but might not happen.

You'll get there I'm sure! It sounds like it's been a challenge for you to get practice time which is the biggest key I think.

 

[Logiqx]

Gosh, I don't think I did CP since last July. Niklas swaps the ones from the left and they end up on the right, before the last U, right? So U2 to have the left side swapped... Anyway I got confused by it a bit when I tried to do it.

I never did Sune lefty Sune for EP either, cool!



I think you also learned CN which might have been slower progress at first but paid off more later. I tried some non-white/yellow last night and I'm around 1 minute. Thanks for the encouragement!



You'll get there I'm sure! It sounds like it's been a challenge for you to get practice time which is the biggest key I think.

Technically Niklas does a 3 cycle like an A-perm (twisting the same corners simultaneously) but from the beginners point of view it just swaps two corners and spins the U layer. The way i recognise the CP case is to look for two matching corner stickers (non U colour), AUF so they are above the corresponding side then look which corners need to be swapped.
Once you know which cornrrs need to be swapped just AUF and do Niklas.

BTW. How much practice would you say you get Jason?

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[Selkie]

2 years and I'm still not sub 30s. It's a main goal for this year but might not happen.

Mark, I found the Race to Sub-30 here on the speedsolving forums a really good motivator for this. Well worth taking part in. Managed to graduate a few weeks ago and even though it didn't fully pay off in Exeter, my comp average there was 6 seconds ahead of Manchester's

Yeah, the race threads and, most of all, this thread are very good motivators. Seeing Chris up there in the elite of the oldies, close to legends like Roux and Ron van Bruchem is really impressive. I wish I could be close to them somedayk

I completely agree, I think the race threads add a lot of structure to progression and would highly recommend them. I participated in both the race to sub 30 and sub 20 on the forums and it always gave a lot of motivation but in small bits each week. Best of luck

@Miguel

I feel honored even getting close to the cubing legends. Ron is a massive inspiration for me and he takes the time to offer words of encouragement on Facebook to cubing achievements or goals I post having already commented on my average from Sunday.

@Mark

I didn't realise you had uploaded your 4BLD, have a link as I dont think I am subscribed.