OH Table Use [better poll]

[Kirjava]

looking at C1a vs D1b, it seems perfectly clear that the current set of rules does not allow using the table to aid the solve

Nah, you just can't read the rules.

 

[riffz]

actually, henry's post pointed something out to me.
the current set of rules seems to state that you canNOT use the surface to solve.

# C1a) During the solve the competitor must only use one hand. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.
# C1b) During the solve no other body part or any object other than the surface must touch the puzzle. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.

vs

# D1b) During the inspection and solve the competitor must only use his feet (with or without socks) and the surface. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.
# D1c) No other body parts or other available objects must touch the puzzle. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.

looking at C1a vs D1b, it seems perfectly clear that the current set of rules does not allow using the table to aid the solve. now just to establish rules about using the surface to align to the cube...

...

 

[Enter]

So if you can use the table, why not...

Only one hand.

win :fp

 

[Cyrus C.]

You guys can't make comparisons to events like megaminx. In megaminx you're just trying to solve it. In OH you're trying to solve it with just one hand.

 

[Kirjava]

You guys can't make comparisons to events like megaminx. In megaminx you're just trying to solve it. In OH you're trying to solve it with just one hand.

Feet.

 

[Zava]

looking at C1a vs D1b, it seems perfectly clear that the current set of rules does not allow using the table to aid the solve

Nah, you just can't read the rules.

no, you don't get them right. at OH, according to rules, you can only use your hand, and you won't be punished, if the cube touches the surface = no problem if you drop your cube during a solve.
at feet, according to rules, you can both use your feet and the surface. the lack of mentioning surface in the OH rule at the "you can use" part, but being mentioned at feet, clears it up.

 

[Kirjava]

looking at C1a vs D1b, it seems perfectly clear that the current set of rules does not allow using the table to aid the solve

Nah, you just can't read the rules.

no, you don't get them right. at OH, according to rules, you can only use your hand, and you won't be punished, if the cube touches the surface = no problem if you drop your cube during a solve.
at feet, according to rules, you can both use your feet and the surface. the lack of mentioning surface in the OH rule at the "you can use" part, but being mentioned at feet, clears it up.

Haha. There is no question about what the rules mean, if you disagree with this you are simply wrong.

 

[riffz]

looking at C1a vs D1b, it seems perfectly clear that the current set of rules does not allow using the table to aid the solve

Nah, you just can't read the rules.

no, you don't get them right. at OH, according to rules, you can only use your hand, and you won't be punished, if the cube touches the surface = no problem if you drop your cube during a solve.
at feet, according to rules, you can both use your feet and the surface. the lack of mentioning surface in the OH rule at the "you can use" part, but being mentioned at feet, clears it up.

The rules clearly say that you can touch the cube with one hand and the surface (table).

We aren't debating what the current rules are though, rather what they ought to be.

 

[Kirjava]

We aren't debating what the current rules are though, rather what they ought to be.

Actually, we arn't doing that either.

 

[riffz]

We aren't debating what the current rules are though, rather what they ought to be.

Actually, we arn't doing that either.

Go on.

EDIT: Okay, whether its in the *spirit* of OH or not. My bad. -_-

 

[Carrot]

You guys can't make comparisons to events like megaminx. In megaminx you're just trying to solve it. In OH you're trying to solve it with just one hand.

Feet.

Feet.

 

[qqwref]

actually, henry's post pointed something out to me.
the current set of rules seems to state that you canNOT use the surface to solve.

# C1a) During the solve the competitor must only use one hand. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.
# C1b) During the solve no other body part or any object other than the surface must touch the puzzle. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.

vs

# D1b) During the inspection and solve the competitor must only use his feet (with or without socks) and the surface. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.
# D1c) No other body parts or other available objects must touch the puzzle. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.

looking at C1a vs D1b, it seems perfectly clear that the current set of rules does not allow using the table to aid the solve. now just to establish rules about using the surface to align to the cube...

Actually I think this is a pretty good point. Obviously the regulations are not perfectly written (we've seen instances of this before) but it does look somewhat like the intent was to make people use one hand only for OH turning, and both feet and the surface only for feet turning, while still not penalizing people who let the cube touch the surface. I'm not worried about organizational difficulties because as far as I am concerned it should all be up to the judge - if they think the competitor is deliberately turning with the table, they should be penalized; otherwise it's fine.

Anyway, I'd vote to disallow the surface for turning during feet if it was proven possible to solve the cube this way. We *shouldn't* have to use the surface, but we do anyway. Feet is dumb. As far as I can tell the surface is a necessary evil, just like the paper in BLD events - optimally it shouldn't be in the rules, but we need it for our own reasons.

 

[Novriil]

I have small hands and when my cube gets unaligned then it is really hard to get it back to the normal position without using the table. So in these cases it's really good. And actually you still lose time by using the table. So it should be allowed (as it is already)...

 

[jms_gears1]

actually, henry's post pointed something out to me.
the current set of rules seems to state that you canNOT use the surface to solve.

# C1a) During the solve the competitor must only use one hand. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.
# C1b) During the solve no other body part or any object other than the surface must touch the puzzle. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.

vs

# D1b) During the inspection and solve the competitor must only use his feet (with or without socks) and the surface. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.
# D1c) No other body parts or other available objects must touch the puzzle. Penalty: disqualification of the solve.

looking at C1a vs D1b, it seems perfectly clear that the current set of rules does not allow using the table to aid the solve. now just to establish rules about using the surface to align to the cube...

Same rules, other than Feet and OH just with OH its said in two different rules.instead of at the same time.

Feet says specifically only feet and surcace.
OH says only one hand and only surface.

 

[Kirjava]

it does look somewhat like the intent was to make people use one hand only for OH turning, and both feet and the surface only for feet turning

If you look in the original thread, the intent was to allow one hand and the surface for turning.

 

[ManasijV]

I voted no. It just shows how one is not in complete control over his/her cube.
Toes do not have the dexterity which fingers have and hence there is no other way but to use the floor.
No point arguing about megaminx because the table will not help you to save more than a second, will it?

 

[IamWEB]

I think that the table should only be used for fixing lockups, using it for more than quick move upon fixing the lockup is purpose-defeating for the event. Besides, you're better off learning to turn faster than to use the table to do turns.
However, if using the table was banned, I wouldn't really argue with it. Just using the table is avoidable if you practice controlling your cube better (similar to what ManasijV said above).

 

[CubesOfTheWorld]

I think that the table should only be used for fixing lockups, using it for more than quick move upon fixing the lockup is purpose-defeating for the event. Besides, you're better off learning to turn faster than to use the table to do turns.
However, if using the table was banned, I wouldn't really argue with it. Just using the table is avoidable if you practice controlling your cube better (similar to what ManasijV said above).

EXACTLY!

 

[HenryJade]

i think they must need to clear that regulation/

some people here was correct for saying " using table/surface is legal FOR popped cube but but for actual solving the cube "

 

[abr71310]

I think there should be some specific rule that disallows / allows the use of the table, so whether or not we like it it's there in stone.