More Questions

[Snipermtd24]

Figured I'd start a new thread for a couple more questions instead of reviving my old.

First off, I can average 1:15 using Dan Brown's beginner method with a 57 second best (49 second lucky), and I've been told I should learn the 4 look last layer, but it seems monotonous to keep doing the same algorithm over and over for one case, to me at least.

So what I was wondering is, should I go ahead and learn the 3 look last layer?

Also, my intuitive F2L is getting much better, I should be able to implement that into all my solves within a week.

Any other advice you may have is welcome, thanks.

 

[Crzyazn]

I didn't even know 4LLL existed when I started, and thus jumped straight into 3LLL

I have to say it was a rocky start...

The OLL was easy, but ineffective until i actually memorized all 7 cases

PLL was the most powerful part (in my opinion) of learning 3 Look. When i first got a couple of them down, i found i could hit sub40 much more often. Problems surfaced when i got NONfamiliar cases, resulting in me spamming algs and getting 50ish times.

It really isn't "right" or "wrong", but be warned that it is only effective when you have about 80+% of the algorithms memorized with sufficient execution speed

 

[0l3n]

Im kinda in the same situation as you are in now, only I use the intuitive F2L already, im "studying" all the seven OLL's and PLL's needed right now so taht would be the 7 first ones I guess. Though you are quite faster than me I must say.
The OLLs are quite easy to remember and recognise but the PLLs are a pain in the ass.

 

[Crzyazn]

3LookLL is a VERY POWERFUL set of algorithms for me....I must say the results after 4 months have been most pleasing

If you are up to the challenge, then face it head on!

But the most important part of your solve will be the F2L, if you have even sub20 F2L with a decent 3Look you will achieve some nice times. Improve your F2L while learning 3Look on the side

 

[0l3n]

Any good 3look tutorial somewere?
Cant seem to find one.

 

[Crzyazn]

http://www.geocities.com/rubiks_galaxia/3look.html

reflect the top 2 edge flip algs if you wish

Use an alternate to S R' U' R U R U R U' R' S' ....seriously, I think this one sucks


And sub the 7 OLL cases as you see fit

 

[Snipermtd24]

Thanks Crzyazn, I can probably do a 25 sec F2L at best now, I'll time it later and see what I come up with.

EDIT: I take that back, my F2L isn't that fast yet :S I did a couple times and got 45 secs-1 min.. so a good bit of work there yet. My biggest flaw is I sometimes I get cases I'm not sure what to do with, but that doesn't happen to often.

 

[blgentry]

Sniper,

You'll definitely benefit from changing to a more advanced last layer method. F2L will make the really big difference, but the last layer can be "big" too, depending upon how much of your solve time is spent in the last layer.

If you're ready to learn a handful of algorithms, I'd suggest learning the 4 Look Last Layer, but learn it first as what amounts to an 8 Look Last Layer. Then, as you add algorithms, those looks will drop away one by one. Let me illustrate:

Looks:
1,2: Orient Edges: This requires two looks in the worst case, using the standard edge flipping algs.
3,4: Orient Corners: If you learn Sune and Anti-Sune (the three corner rotator algs) you can do any of the seven cases with a worst case of applying two of these algs.
5,6: Permute Corners: Again, the worst case scenario of a diagonal corner swap requires two algs to be run; in this case algs A n3 and/or A n4 from this page:

http://cubefreak.net/PLL.html

7,8: Permute edges. The worst case here, of all four edges being out of place requires algs U n1 and/or U n2 from the page above.

Now, to get fewer and fewer looks, you have to add algs. Here's how it breaks down.

1,2: Orient Edges: Learn the alg for flipping all edges at once and you instantly drop one look off. I like OLL 13 from this page:

http://www.cubewhiz.com/oll.html

You can use ANY OLL that starts with ZERO edges solved.

3,4: This is the hardest one. You must learn the all 7 of the corner orientation algs. You should already know two of them, so that's 5 more to learn. Using Macky's numbering system (and page), it's OLLs #21 through #27 on this page: http://cubefreak.net/OLL.html
Once you learn all 7, you'll drop off a look.

5,6: Permute Corners: Learn one alg for swapping diagonal corners, and you instantly drop off one look. I took the advice on Macky's 4 Look Last Layer page and learned PLL #15 (Y). It swaps diagonal corners and two edges. Learn this and you'll drop off another look:

http://cubefreak.net/twolook.html

7,8: Permute Edges: The two cases that have all 4 edges out of place are #5 Z and #6 H. Learn both of these, and you'll drop off one look.

So, as you progress you get to fewer and fewer looks. When you learn everything I've outlined here, you'll have a 4 Look Last Layer. *Then* to get even faster, you learn the remaining 14 PLLs, which will finally yield a true 3 Look Last Layer. I'm 2 algs from completing that step myself.

As you are learning all of this, you should be solving a lot and working on your F2L and cross. I tried to focus on one thing at a time, and only learned 2 to 5 new algs a week, then let them sink in through time and repetition.

I hope this made some sense.

Brian.

 

[0l3n]

http://www.geocities.com/rubiks_galaxia/3look.html

reflect the top 2 edge flip algs if you wish

Use an alternate to S R' U' R U R U R U' R' S' ....seriously, I think this one sucks


And sub the 7 OLL cases as you see fit

Cool but I think im gona start with the 4look first, as I hate the PLL's im not going to learn all 21 right now ill get a head ache that lasts a lifetime if I do that.

 

[Snipermtd24]

Well I'm just going to start with the 3 look because really, I'd rather learn the most efficient method first. I don't have much trouble with memorizing algs, so I'm just gonna challenge myself with the PLL's.

Anyone know of a place where I could print the 7 edge algorithms from? I tried the geocities link posted above but when I printed it only printed a portion of them, thanks again.

 

[0l3n]

Here are the OLL's
http://www.cubewhiz.com/ollprint.html

And the PLL's
http://www.cubewhiz.com/pllprint.html

 

[Snipermtd24]

Yeah, that's where I got my PLL's from, but which are the 7 OLL's that I need to know for the 3 look last layer?

 

[*LukeMayn*]

IMO go straight onto 3lll.
The 7 OLL's are all of the cross orientations. You know how in beginner you go dot, L, line, cross or whatever. also to speed things up a bit, in the L instead of having it in the top left, then doing FRUR'U'F' PUT IT IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT AND DO fRUR'U'f' A small letter means two layers. so f would be the front two.

 

[0l3n]

IMO go straight onto 3lll.
The 7 OLL's are all of the cross orientations. You know how in beginner you go dot, L, line, cross or whatever. also to speed things up a bit, in the L instead of having it in the top left, then doing FRUR'U'F' PUT IT IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT AND DO fRUR'U'f' A small letter means two layers. so f would be the front two.

What he said

What im thinking is, learn the 4look just so I can speed up my solving right now and it would give me a boost in time, that and I could stop using the damn beginners method because its way to slow. Right after ive learned the 7 PLL's and OLL's I thought id go right to the rest.

So you could say its just because I want some variation because right now the beginners method is way to anoying. Ill take a look at the 3LLL though.

 

[*LukeMayn*]

also people the best "first" PLL's to learn (from my experiance so far) are the 3 cycles and T. so Ua, Ub, Aa, Ab, and T

 

[Snipermtd24]

Thanks LukeMayne, but why should I change that algorithm? I've been doing F U R R' U' F' for a while and am good with it? Is it a bit faster?

 

[Lofty]

Just learn whatever you want... it may not be all that helpful what you learn but it can't really hurt to learn new things. Doing things yourself helps to add to the understanding rather than just blindly following us here.
Oh and once you get done with memorizing you'll look back and realize OLL + PLL really arent that bad.
IN the course of my cubing I have changed ever alg I use for PLL a few times, I dabbled in learning ELL (I would finish this if I was not a OH cuber) and tried loads of different things. Google the internet for cube stuff and try it all out.
Edit: I have never used the double layer alg myself...

 

[Snipermtd24]

Yeah Lofty, makes a lot of sense.

By the way, got a vid of some of your OH stuff? Your records look amazing and I'd like to see them

 

[Lucas Garron]

Thanks LukeMayne, but why should I change that algorithm? I've been doing F U R R' U' F' for a while and am good with it? Is it a bit faster?

Could you make a video with you using that? I have never seen someone claim they're "good" with an identity.

(Note: Check the permutation of your letters. )

 

[blgentry]

To all of you advocating going directly from a beginner's last layer to a 3 look last layer: How exactly do you expect this to be done? Do you expect to memorize all 21 PLLs, plus whatever remaining OLLs are required, all at once, before *any* solves can be done with this method? If so, I find that rather naive, so I can't imagine this is the case.

The method I outlined only requires that you learn 4 to 6 algs to get started, and by the time you have learned a total of 17 algs, you have a 4 look last layer. All the while you *can* solve the entire cube.

I feel like I must be missing something.

Brian.