Megaminx 2GLL?

[fanwuq]

I've had my megaminx (cube4you $4 one) for almost a year and finally played with it for the first time today!
First it sucked really badly. Then, after playing for a day, it got nice. I can do (U'R'UR)*6 in 3.8 seconds. Then, I sanded the corners, so I can now do it about 3 seconds. (That's faster than a good 3x3 cube!) I think I have a unique turning style with it. For the "F2L" part, it's nothing special, I just grip the layer and turn slowly (it is slow, clumsy, and inconvenient). But for 2gen, I form a cup with my hand and just hold the megaminx kind of like some sort of video game controller, then I trigger crazily with my thumb and index finger. With this, I realized that a 2gen LL solution for megaminx would be super fast. I know it wound be one look, but making it as 2gen as possible would be great.
So far for LL, I've been using a beginner solution I came up with myself that I don't like much. First flip edges using Petrus or FURU'R'F'. Then permute edges using T and Y perm. Then using RUR'DRU'R'D' and such commutators to solve the corners 1 or 2 at a time. Then orient with the (R'D'RD)*2 commutator. It's here that I really get to utilize that fingertrick.
Would it be nice if I can just flip edges, prepare for 2gen, then finish?
I realized that 2gen for megaminx means something different from 2gen on the 3x3. I don't even think a 2 gen U perm is possible on the megaminx. So what can you do to prepare for the 2gen? How can you recognize it is 2gen-able?
(The 2gen part would probably be 2 look for convenience of look ahead and minimizing # of algs.)

 

[masterofthebass]

U perms are definitely 2gen-able on megaminx. The idea of having 2GLL doesn't really apply, because the "sune" class of OLLs still permute corners. This is really a non possible idea. I would suggest orienting corners before using the T/Y perm because you can mainly use 3x3 algs. It's much quicker than using R'D'RD

 

[fanwuq]

Then I would need a Megaminx E and A perm.
Also I have some trouble recognizing the OLL cases.
I realized that sune permute corners, so I wasn't sure how to make it 2gen-able. Guess it's not possible?

 

[Cerberus]

when you look at eriks site you will see some 2gens for orientation and some permutations that got two L moves or F in it, btw: permutate corners is missing...

 

[TMOY]

I perform the 4 steps of LL in the same order as you do (orient edges, permute edges, permute corners, orient corners) but with more efficient algorithms. And yes, solving the last 3 steps in 2-gen is possible; the only alg I'm using which is not 2-gen (or, more exactly, which cannot be easily turned into a 2-gen alg) is niklaas because it is definitely the fastest way to do a 3-cycle of corners.
(And I also use a chinese Megaminx, it's definitely better than my way too stiff Meffert..(U'R'UR)*6 in 3.8 seconds is good, you're much faster than me.)

 

[qqwref]

2gen can solve everything on the last layer except for edge orientation.

Here are two U perms: R U R' U R' U' R2 U' R' U R' U R U2', and U2 R' U' R U' R U R2' U R U' R U' R'.

I think watermelon and I calculated some optimal 2-gen corner perms for each case a while ago too, here are samples:
Adjacent 3-Cycle: U2 R U R' U2 R' U' R U' R U' R' U2 R' U R
Non-Adjacent 3-Cycle: R U2 R' U2 R2 U R2' U2 R U2' R U' R' U R'
You CAN do PLL in two steps (or one if you're crazy enough) with 2gen, but the algs do end up being relatively long.

Oh, and I think I need a better minx, it takes me 7.5 seconds to do (RUR'U')6...

 

[Lucas Garron]

How about some intuitive 2-gen LL work like this?

Scramble: R U' R' U' R U' R U R U' R U R' U' R U' R' U R' U R U R' U R'

Everything but FR slot: U'R'U2'R2UR2 U2'R'U2'RUR'U'R
3x2x1 block + edges: U2'RUR'U'RU2R'U'RU2R'U'RU'R'U

Anyhow, 2-gen A-perm and U-perm aren't hard.

 

[DavidWoner]

when you look at eriks site you will see some 2gens for orientation and some permutations that got two L moves or F in it, btw: permutate corners is missing...

that is a prettier, yet incomplete version of the info on eriks site. for the full guide you need to go here

 

[Erik]

Meh...
2G LL! That made me laugh. Just the fact that you can solve the whole minx 2G after EO doesn't mean it is faster at all. Actually I know it is not at all... For instance: a 16 move RU alg instead of a normal 9 move corner 3 cycle sounds... crazy?

 

[TMOY]

You CAN do PLL in two steps (or one if you're crazy enough) with 2gen, but the algs do end up being relatively long..

Like L2U2L'2UL2U2L'2 for ewample ?

 

[fanwuq]

2gen can solve everything on the last layer except for edge orientation.

Here are two U perms: R U R' U R' U' R2 U' R' U R' U R U2', and U2 R' U' R U' R U R2' U R U' R U' R'.

I think watermelon and I calculated some optimal 2-gen corner perms for each case a while ago too, here are samples:
Adjacent 3-Cycle: U2 R U R' U2 R' U' R U' R U' R' U2 R' U R
Non-Adjacent 3-Cycle: R U2 R' U2 R2 U R2' U2 R U2' R U' R' U R'
You CAN do PLL in two steps (or one if you're crazy enough) with 2gen, but the algs do end up being relatively long.

Oh, and I think I need a better minx, it takes me 7.5 seconds to do (RUR'U')6...

Wow, really? Thank you very much for the nice algs!
I'll definitely use the U perms.
Do you also have algs for edges 2 2-cycles and non-ajacent 3-cycle?
For example, I use T perm for non ajacent 3-cycle of edges and 'N' perm for 2 2-cycle.
That N perm is: L R U2 L' U R' L U' R U2 L' U2 R'
But a 2gen alg would be much nicer.
And for corners, some 5-cycles?
For A perm, I found x' U' F' R B R' F' R B' R' F2 U
(and its inverse)
I guess I'll practice this and see if I should keep it or adapt a 2 gen one.
For "E" perm, I found U2 R2' U2' (R'FRF')*3 U2 R2 U2'

Could I see the list? How many cases are there?

 

[TMOY]

Do you also have algs for (...) non-ajacent 3-cycle?

Like L2U2L'2UL2U2L'2 for ewample ?

Did you try it ?

 

[fanwuq]

Do you also have algs for (...) non-ajacent 3-cycle?

Like L2U2L'2UL2U2L'2 for ewample ?

Did you try it ?

No, I'm letting my friend borrow it for the day.

 

[fanwuq]

Meh...
2G LL! That made me laugh. Just the fact that you can solve the whole minx 2G after EO doesn't mean it is faster at all. Actually I know it is not at all... For instance: a 16 move RU alg instead of a normal 9 move corner 3 cycle sounds... crazy?

Well, we have different turning styles. While 2g, I can do over 6tps on crappy chinese megaminx, anthing else is significantly slower, like 2tps.
So 2G 16 mover would be like 3 seconds as opposed to 5 seconds for 9 mover not 2g.

Edit:
Thanks Erik!
Your site is so helpful. I'm test algs on gelatinbrain simulator right now. I just realized that T-perm U T-perm U = solved cube! So rather than doing inverse or reflection of T, it's the samething if you simple do it after a U, that's so cool! I'll using this for now until I memorize TMOY's alg. I'll adopt your OLL system rather than R'D'RD.

 

[blah]

Does anyone have a list of 2-gen solutions for all EPLL cases?

 

[Jerhn]

Hi, I`ve been looking for hours for algs to permut 5 corners . I found 3 cycle, 4 cycle, but whats with 5? Next question is, where can I find algs for OLL in one step and PLL in one step for megaminx? I know it`s rather impossible to memorize all of them but I`m just curious Thanks for replay.

 

[deadalnix]

Hi, I`ve been looking for hours for algs to permut 5 corners . I found 3 cycle, 4 cycle, but whats with 5? Next question is, where can I find algs for OLL in one step and PLL in one step for megaminx? I know it`s rather impossible to memorize all of them but I`m just curious Thanks for replay.

This is impossible. Are you sure of you ?

 

[Jerhn]

I can solve maegaminx in less than 1.30, and now i`m looking for some algs which can halp me to speed up my solves. First i want to learn 5 cycles but i can`t find algs! ;( But if someone have algs for Pll and Oll in one step i`m also interested

 

[TMOY]

I highly doubt anybody has ever searched for full OLL and PLL algs on the megaminx, That's 410 algs and it won't speed up your solve very much anyway.
For 5-cycle of corners, I know the following algs:
L U2 L' U L U2 L'2 U'2 L U' L' U'2 L (doesn't preserve CO)
L2 U2 L'2 U L2 U' L'2 U L2 U' L'2 U L2 U2 L'2 (preserves CO)

 

[Jerhn]

TMOY - thanks for your alg!!! I`m solving LL in following order: EO, CO, EP, CP - so i need only algs which won`t change corner orientation. I know that`s so many cases of full Pll and Oll, but maybe some of them could be useful, for exampe- if we have 3 edges flipped correctly, full Oll is not necessary, because I need 1 sec. to orient the rest. But when we have just one filpped correctly, the number of full Oll algs will be more friendly and we can save few seconds. I`m not sure am I able to memorize all of "1 edge correctly" Oll algs, but if i won`t try, i won`t know it. If there is no full oll and pll algs in the Internet, is any other way to create them? Any program or simulator?