low teen averages

[immortal technique]

Hi there, all!
I know, there has been lots of threads about how to increase F2L speed. But I don't want to simply ask :"How can I increase F2L speed?"

First of all, using full Fridrich I average now about 29 (GOOD!) to 30, 31 (not so good)

best AVG of 12: 27.65 (some OLLs aren't that fluent yet, but I think that's not the main issue).
best single (non-lucky): 21.22
Cross is 3-4 seconds, depending on easy or difficult case. Cross + F2L is about 20+ mostly.

Now my question: How important is it to know all kinds of open slot tricks, stuck pieces tricks and multislotting, as described on cubeloop.com (GREAT site; the only one I know with that kind of collection), to get sub 20?
Because my 41 standard F2Ls (mainly from Dan Harris' page) go like lightning. If I spot them rapidly (with approximately NO DELAYS) I get 21s to 25s, if not, up to 33. I'm still improving a little, but I can't imagine how to achive times like 15s or 16s AVG, (Not to mention Harris Chan's 10.45 avg of 12 on YouTube) because my absolutely best and fluent solves don't get under 21 or 22. Therefore I think, it must be the move count. I see that I use about 5-8 moves for the cross, 30-35 for F2L; for the LL there isn't much space to improve - I use the algs from cubestation.co.uk, adapted a few of them to my hands, but they aren't longer or anything.

So do you top cubers ALWAYS use shortcuts like the ones mentioned whenever possible/necessary, or can I assume that my averages lower themselves with time and practise passing by, just using the 41 F2L algs that don't affect the other F2L slots? (Because I don't know what to learn anymore, besides all of those uncountable cases described on cubeloop)

PS.: I hope that thread speaks for lots of other cubers stuck at the 30s barrier.

 

[jeff081692]

I have the exact same situation. Even though my F2L is ok my move count is very high like late 30s early 40s. I have a lot of finger tricks so i can get an 11 second F2L without cross. But with that move count if I use a metronome it would be alot longer than if I knew empty slots and stuff. I would think a shorter move count with a good tempo would increase your times alot.

This may just be for my case because you might not have a high move count but think about the comparison of a low move consistent solve and a fast solve with more finger tricks. I am looking forward to reading some other opinions because it will affect my cubing also.

 

[joey]

Because my 41 standard F2Ls (mainly from Dan Harris' page) go like lightning. I

You shouldn't be executing the first 3 F2L pairs that fast. If you do, it doesn't give you any time to see the next pair. But do the last pair as fast as possible always.

With alot of the F2L tricks, they aren't really algorithms that you should learn. They are sets of moves which you should look over and understand, and know how to adapt and use them.

 

[badmephisto]

well i average high teens right now, so i'm not exactly there, but i had a couple of lucky solves in mid teens, and i can say that a LOT of it is looking ahead... mainly that I'd say. After you finish a slot, you should know almost exactly what your next move is, and what situation you have. Also, you must try to maintain track of all the slots that are open and those that you already filled in, and be able to update that mental image as you rotate the cube in your hands - this way, you know exactly what ways you can hide pieces so that you won't mess up some filled slots.

Those two things would be my main advice on what you should work on

 

[AvGalen]

Cross is 3-4 seconds, depending on easy or difficult case. Cross + F2L is about 20+ mostly

I see that I use about 5-8 moves for the cross, 30-35 for F2L

I am assuming 30-35 is excluding the cross. This is quite high. You should aim for 7 moves for each pair, so 28 in total.

This also means that you use about 17 (20+ minus 3-4) seconds for 30-35 moves. I wouldn't call that "go like lightning". I think you are moving much faster than those 2 moves per second and DO have a lot of delays. I think you should upload a video.

I don't think you need any of those "advanced" tricks for the F2L. Just regular pairing should give you this:
2 second cross, finished at 2
2 seconds for each pair, finished at 10
2 seconds OLL, finished at 12
2 seconds PLL, finished at 14

P.S. I don't use Fridrich F2L. I use a more beginners variation called keyhole. This requires more moves and I use more cube rotations, but getting a 15 seconds F2L (including cross) is normal for me and I am not a very fast mover.

 

[Marcell]

can I assume that my averages lower themselves with time and practise passing by, just using the 41 F2L algs that don't affect the other F2L slots?

You certainly can assume that. Those many F2L tricks are useful but not neccessary. Also, you will definitely learn some of them(like using open slots) by simply practising.

 

[chue.hsien]

fluency is more important than lightning speed during f2l. with absolute zero delays and a 2 to 2.5 sec cross, u can acheive cross+f2l with times of 11 seconds or less, turning at moderate speed. lightning fast speed only comes into play in LL. i believe the ability to use empty slots to breakip/pairup corner and edges is enough.

 

[immortal technique]

Ok, I think I HAVE to practise a lot (which I do anyway). Alt least 40solves per day is normal. Perhaps I've gotten into some bad habits, I think I will upload a video soon, as adviced.

QUOTE:
"I think you are moving much faster than those 2 moves per second and DO have a lot of delays."

Ok, I think that's right, there MUST be delays which I don't quite feel or realize. But it's those solves WITHOUT delays that bring me to 21-24s. Those feel so smooth, consistant and fast that I don't know how to scrape yet another 5 seconds. Therefore the question for special shortcuts.

Thank you all for your hints and analysis. I will upload a video soon. Probably you will see alot of things that I don't realize.

 

[Sin-H]

I also don't think that you need the Special Tricks for F2L. I got Sub-20 with just 4 or 5 of them and I still don't use more of them and also got some Sub-15 averages...

 

[shawnlee]

can i get to sub 20 if my cross is 4 sec average?

 

[Marcell]

According to Fridrich's times(2s cross, 4*2s F2L, 3s OLL, 4s PLL), you can. However, I'd recommend you to practise the cross.

 

[Lt-UnReaL]

2 second cross, finished at 2
2 seconds for each pair, finished at 10
2 seconds OLL, finished at 12
2 seconds PLL, finished at 14

What about recognition between F2L and OLL, OLL and PLL? And isn't PLL at least .5 slower than OLL?

 

[Todd]

Not necessarily, if your hands are doing all the work and you can see what piece is going to end up where while you are doing it then you should be able to execute the next set of moves immediately.

 

[hdskull]

First of all, using full Fridrich

Cross + F2L is about 20+ mostly.

Because my 41 standard F2Ls (mainly from Dan Harris' page) go like lightning.

If you know full fridrich, you should AT MOST be sub 25, if you just practice it.

If you F2L is like lightning, it should not be 20+. my F2L isn't like lightning and i usually get 10-14(including cross). the only reason i'm at around high 19 low 20, is because i use 2 look OLL, which isn't too fast, on one looks i get sub 20 solves and my PLL isn't fast enough.

a good time break down would be:
cross 2, F2L 8, OLL 2, PLL 3

can i get to sub 20 if my cross is 4 sec average?

yes, cross 4, F2L 9, OLL 3, PLL 4; or 4, 11, 2, 3

 

[immortal technique]

30-35 moves for F2L is WITHOUT cross. I just don't get it how to get those <28. I only use those 41 standard algorithms, and the faster I do them, the more setup moves I use, because I don't see the shortest way (fewest moves) anymore. I spent the last two days counting moves on my F2L and not going for time. - I never could do sub 25 moves (rare. lucky cases), no matter how slow I did. Normally I can't do it sub 30, no matter how slow I go.
I don't want to bother you any more now, I guess I just need more practise. I will upload a video soon, I think that will give you more information.
Thx to all.

 

[Lt-UnReaL]

Without cross you gotta get your F2L between 22-27 moves for pretty good times.