limits of the LBL method?

[mati rubik]

my PB with LBL single is 21 seconds, and average 28

sub 20 is possible, sub 17 average still possible, but sub 16 is impossible I think

 

[Mike Hughey]

Most advanced cubers = those who knows F2L and a full 2LLL, can take a simple LBL down to 35 second averages with just the few rounds of practice that is needed to learn the method (algs for the cases is not a problem, the ones needed for most 2LLL's are more than enough for basicly any 4LLL).

Using keyhole and 4LLL (mostly 2-3LLL but I did not know all cases) I did sub 30 second averages in the 80's and can still do sub 30 times after a little practice.

I think anyone that know full F2L, OLL and PLL can get way faster than 35 seconds with LBL. I don't know full F2L, only know about 10 OLL and half of the PLL's and I can do a sub 30 average with LBL + 4LLL easily. With keyhole I can easily get a sub 25 average and I am getting really close to a sub 20 average.

Not ANYONE, Arnaud. But probably most people. I tried a few and got around 45 seconds; I could probably get to sub-40 with a bit of practice.

 

[Kenneth]

Bla bla ...
Using keyhole and 4LLL (mostly 2-3LLL but I did not know all cases) I did sub 30 second averages in the 80's and can still do sub 30 times after a little practice.

Bla bla.... With keyhole I can easily get a sub 25 average and I am getting really close to a sub 20 average.

While talking about it, I created this article a little earlier:

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Keyhole_First_Two_Layers

Care to fill in a little?, it is your subject. (I sure hope the page will also have a tutorial some day =)

 

[AvGalen]

Bla bla ...
Using keyhole and 4LLL (mostly 2-3LLL but I did not know all cases) I did sub 30 second averages in the 80's and can still do sub 30 times after a little practice.

Bla bla.... With keyhole I can easily get a sub 25 average and I am getting really close to a sub 20 average.

While talking about it, I created this article a little earlier:

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Keyhole_First_Two_Layers

Care to fill in a little?, it is your subject. (I sure hope the page will also have a tutorial some day =)

I have put it on my todo list, but it will be a while before I have time to do it. Could I just link to my youtube video for keyhole?
Also, I use this order for keyhole:
* cross (doesn't have to match centers)
* 3 corners
* 4 edges
* 4th corner

This has 3 big advantages over cross, 3 corners, 3 edges, 4th corner, 4th edge:
1) It flows better to do all 4 edges (less switching between corners/edges)
2) You avoid the case where the 4th edge needs to be flipped
3) While doing the 4th corner, the orientation of the last layer edges doesn't change so you have better look-ahead into the edge-OLL

(and Mike, you really should practice your fingertricks. Maybe you should practise some RU-2gen and some LU-2gen)

 

[brunson]

I think anyone that know full F2L, OLL and PLL can get way faster than 35 seconds with LBL. I don't know full F2L, only know about 10 OLL and half of the PLL's and I can do a sub 30 average with LBL + 4LLL easily. With keyhole I can easily get a sub 25 average and I am getting really close to a sub 20 average.

Stop depressing me, Arnaud. I've been working full F2L and a 2LLL for six months and I seem stuck at 35s average. I can't believe these kids that hit sub-20 in three months, I think it's a malleability of the mind and I lost about 15 years ago.

 

[AvGalen]

I think anyone that know full F2L, OLL and PLL can get way faster than 35 seconds with LBL. I don't know full F2L, only know about 10 OLL and half of the PLL's and I can do a sub 30 average with LBL + 4LLL easily. With keyhole I can easily get a sub 25 average and I am getting really close to a sub 20 average.

Stop depressing me, Arnaud. I've been working full F2L and a 2LLL for six months and I seem stuck at 35s average. I can't believe these kids that hit sub-20 in three months, I think it's a malleability of the mind and I lost about 15 years ago.

OK, I take it back :rolleyes:

 

[Kenneth]

Bla bla ...
Using keyhole and 4LLL (mostly 2-3LLL but I did not know all cases) I did sub 30 second averages in the 80's and can still do sub 30 times after a little practice.

Bla bla.... With keyhole I can easily get a sub 25 average and I am getting really close to a sub 20 average.

While talking about it, I created this article a little earlier:

http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Keyhole_First_Two_Layers

Care to fill in a little?, it is your subject. (I sure hope the page will also have a tutorial some day =)

I have put it on my todo list, but it will be a while before I have time to do it. Could I just link to my youtube video for keyhole?
Also, I use this order for keyhole:
* cross (doesn't have to match centers)
* 3 corners
* 4 edges
* 4th corner

This has 3 big advantages over cross, 3 corners, 3 edges, 4th corner, 4th edge:
1) It flows better to do all 4 edges (less switching between corners/edges)
2) You avoid the case where the 4th edge needs to be flipped
3) While doing the 4th corner, the orientation of the last layer edges doesn't change so you have better look-ahead into the edge-OLL

(and Mike, you really should practice your fingertricks. Maybe you should practise some RU-2gen and some LU-2gen)

I put that exellent link to the page =)

About the order, When I was advanced at keyhole I was doing edges and corners simultainously, edge or corner, it did not matter and just before I swiched to F2L I started to use multi colour pairs for the last slot. Using that + a number of algs that solves two corners or two edges at the same time (ex: R L' U2 L R') took me to sub 35 average turns to compleate F2L. But I don't think I recommend it, it is equally easy to learn intuitive F2L.