Keyhole Method/Working Corner method

[Erik]

I just realized I was using this partial for shortcuts for F2L quite a while

 

[AvGalen]

Yes, that is the strange thing about F2L:
First you start with a beginners method: 4 corners, 4 edges
Then keyhole: 3 corners, 3 edges, 1 corner, 1 edge
Then intermediate keyhole: 3 corners, 4 edges, 1 corner
Then advanced keyhole: 3 corners, 4 edges (last one can be flipped, use easy Fridrich F2L cases), 1 corner
Then Fridrich: 4 *(1 corner+1 edge)
Then Fridrich + empty slots
Then Fridrich + empty slots + semi-empty slots (aka keyholes)

I am hoping that after I learn Fridrich, I will still be able to use empty slots and semi-empty slots like I can do now.

 

[Erik]

yes but the difference is that you'll only use that in case an edge or corner is good by itself...

 

[Arakron]

Originally posted by Erik@Apr 16 2007, 04:43 PM
yes but the difference is that you'll only use that in case an edge or corner is good by itself...

What if both are in place in the wrong slot?
Corner in FRD, matching edge in FL, pair goes in BR slot - D' R U R D then insert. Would you do that differently?

 

[AvGalen]

Corner in FRD, matching edge in FL, pair goes in BR slot - D' R U R D then insert. Would you do that differently?

With that many corner-edge pairs not mad yet and so many F2L pieces already in the (wrong) F2L slots, it is very likely that 1 or 2 pairs are ready to be made from the U-layer. Otherwise, your approach sounds good, but you probably mean D' (R U R') D

 

[Mr Cubism]

Yes, that is the strange thing about F2L:
First you start with a beginners method: 4 corners, 4 edges
Then keyhole: 3 corners, 3 edges, 1 corner, 1 edge
Then intermediate keyhole: 3 corners, 4 edges, 1 corner
Then advanced keyhole: 3 corners, 4 edges (last one can be flipped, use easy Fridrich F2L cases), 1 corner
Then Fridrich: 4 *(1 corner+1 edge)
...........QUOTE]


I wake up an old thread here, sorry

A fast question: How much in seconds is the difference in time
between the advanced keyhole and F2L (with a lot of practice on both methods?)
Or split the question like this; a person who solves the F2L (not including the cross) in 12-14 seconds, how much will he/she loose in time using the advanced keyhole instead? 3-4 sec?

 

[Ellis]

I wake up an old thread here, sorry

A fast question: How much in seconds is the difference in time
between the advanced keyhole and F2L (with a lot of practice on both methods?)
Or split the question like this; a person who solves the F2L (not including the cross) in 12-14 seconds, how much will he/she loose in time using the advanced keyhole instead? 3-4 sec?

For quick questions like this you can use the one answer question thread.

My F2L with cross is usually 10-13 seconds, with keyhole its somewhere more like 18 seconds... but I don't practice keyhole so I think if I worked on it, I could improve it some. I could be wrong but I think Arnaud still uses keyhole with something like a 21 sec average. So it can be pretty fast, I just don't see the point in practicing it over practicing F2L.

 

[AvGalen]

I wake up an old thread here, sorry

A fast question: How much in seconds is the difference in time
between the advanced keyhole and F2L (with a lot of practice on both methods?)
Or split the question like this; a person who solves the F2L (not including the cross) in 12-14 seconds, how much will he/she loose in time using the advanced keyhole instead? 3-4 sec?

For quick questions like this you can use the one answer question thread.

My F2L with cross is usually 10-13 seconds, with keyhole its somewhere more like 18 seconds... but I don't practice keyhole so I think if I worked on it, I could improve it some. I could be wrong but I think Arnaud still uses keyhole with something like a 21 sec average. So it can be pretty fast, I just don't see the point in practicing it over practicing F2L.

You are not wrong

I get about 13 seconds F2L with (advanced) keyhole
Erik can/will do faster

I would recommend everyone to learn/understand keyhole, but to use regular Fridrich most of the time because it is simply faster (but not for me, yet)

 

[Mr Cubism]

Okay, thanks! AvGalen, you must tell us when you do the F2L faster than the adv keyhole!

 

[AvGalen]

Okay, thanks! AvGalen, you must tell us when you do the F2L faster than the adv keyhole!

My fingertricks and look-ahead is "optimised" for working keyhole. When warmed up and focussed I do 21 average with keyhole and 27 average with pairs.

For One-handed and bigcubes I sometimes use pairs because that uses less turns and I can't fingertrick or look-ahead on them anyway.
If you already use pairs it is still usefull to try keyhole so you can save some moves if you have a case where either the edge or the corner of a pair is already solved

 

[Mr Cubism]

21 sec in avarage, I should be really pleased anyway! (using adv keyhole or not!)!

I think if someone has used a method for a long time and then switch to another method, it will take long time for the brain to adjust the whole "thinking". I soppose its the same with the cross (change from top to the buttom will force the brain to re-thinking).

Arnaud, it should be interesting to see an following-up to you keyhole-video on youtube; the advanced Keyholey method.

 

[AvGalen]

21 sec in avarage, I should be really pleased anyway! (using adv keyhole or not!)!

I think if someone has used a method for a long time and then switch to another method, it will take long time for the brain to adjust the whole "thinking". I soppose its the same with the cross (change from top to the buttom will force the brain to re-thinking).

Arnaud, it should be interesting to see an following-up to you keyhole-video on youtube; the advanced Keyholey method.

I have a little more free time right now, but I am also going to many competitions. I still have some things I want to create and put online:
* My "very advanced keyhole" method
* Edge control
* My "advanced edge pairing" method on 5x5x5
* A > 5x5x5 tutorial
* How to for scrambling/solving a Magic
* Solving Clock without flipping it over
* Babylon Tower in sub 2 minutes
* Video overviews for different methods for 3x3x3
* Video overviews for different cubes
* Video overviews for different methods for 3x3x3 blindfolded