Is Waterman a dead method?

[somerandomkidmike]

L2L4 uses many more turns, but the same number of looks to solve the cube. I don't doubt the potential of that method, but it doesn't suit me. I like the RMU group of turning for Waterman.

 

[5BLD]

And so do I
For redges do you use commutators/algs or completely intuitively?

 

[Hershey]

And so do I
For redges do you use commutators/algs or completely intuitively?

Comms are intuitive.

 

[somerandomkidmike]

I use commutators, algorithms, and intuition. Some algorithms I just came up with accidentally though. I haven't even written them down. Also, sometimes I solve 3 redges at a time.

 

[5BLD]

Hershey: Sigh. You know what I mean OK?
Mike: interesting. I use commutators for all, but I'm not as fast as you.
You sound like a real seasoned waterman user.

 

[Phlippieskezer]

I just did a Waterman solving using intuitive fail commutators for the redges. Seems like a very interesting method, with a fair amount of potential. I kind of had a hard time doing the orientation at the same time, though.

Feels a lot like Roux (heck, the last step is exactly the same).

Edit: Trying other Waterman solves. Gosh, I'm failing at the redges.

 

[somerandomkidmike]

I actually struggle with roux. The corners seem very different for me for some reason. Hang on- I'm gonna try an average with Roux.

 

[5BLD]

Yeah. We should explore...
I do commutators like in K4 but solving many edges at a time .
What I love is the first layer can be built starting with a roux block (OMG not).
Feels kinda comfortable.

Edit:
Mike: go on then
I will now do a waterman average. Consider the fact I haven't used waterman for months.

 

[Cool Frog]

 

[StachuK1992]

It reminds me of L2L4...

L2L was pretty much never in use by anyone apart from Duncan.
Waterman's been used by more.

Unless you were just referring to the title of "L2L4: the lost methode", lost and dead being 'similar' in this context.

L2L4 uses many more turns, but the same number of looks to solve the cube.

How many moves is Waterman? 47 moves is my average with L2Lk.

 

[Hershey]

How many moves is Waterman? 47 moves is my average with L2Lk.

The wiki page says Waterman is 40-45 STM.

 

[somerandomkidmike]

Wow. I saw your site StachuK. I thought the average was more like 57 or 58! I average about 45. However, that's on the high side for me. I don't want to say it's lower, because it might not be. I stand corrected.

Edit: Also, roux average was 27.87. I had a 40 second solve though, because of a pop.

 

[StachuK1992]

Those algs aren't very good, frankly. In many ways. I'll be going through another run of alg-genning in a few weeks and I'll show its true potential.

 

[5BLD]

Average of 5: 30.23 seconds. OK so I'm not fast with waterman, but I'm already discovering shortcuts-- after 5 mins!
It's like Roux all over again. Almost.

 

[somerandomkidmike]

Those algs aren't very good, frankly. In many ways. I'll be going through another run of alg-genning in a few weeks and I'll show its true potential.

I look forward to seeing more information on your site. I was interested in learning L2Lk, but I figured I should actually learn my own method first. If I break down my solves, I can probably figure out an average number of turns, but we'll just say 45 for now.

 

[gogozerg]

I remember after I read Waterman papers, I realized that many tricks were not suitable for full speed solving.

I think many "corners first" solvers from the eighties could be as fast with only a subset of strategies. For instance:
- L-layer, except for 1 edge (hole)
- R-corners
- 2 R-edges
- last L-edge + 1 R-edge
- last R-edge + orient M-edges (very few cases)
- M-edges permutation

There's something I like about Waterman papers: They don't call "algorithm" every dumb move sequence.

 

[5BLD]

Yes, leaving out the edge gives nice fast sequences for redges.
In fact, it gives an exact Roux finish... Well the way I do it anyway.

 

[Gaétan Guimond]

Waterman on video

 

[Kirjava]

love this video

 

[BC1997]

I wouldn't say its dead, its more of a method that shouldn't really be used for speed. Its more of an FMC method though it could be used for speed. One has to be determined to learn such a method.