Is a PLL skip lucky when using COLL?

[riffz]

Is a PLL skip lucky when the correct COLL was knowingly applied?

I placed this in the discussion forum because I thought maybe some would be disagreeing with each other on this.

Part of me says that it isn't lucky because part of the COLL "method" is to increase your odds of getting a PLL skip, but the other part of me still says that its up to chance and is therefore lucky.

Thoughts?

 

[ErikJ]

yes it's lucky. but not as lucky as getting a skip after doing regular OLL

 

[Kxg]

I wouldn't call it lucky if you force it.

 

[Lucas Garron]

I wouldn't call it lucky if you force it.

Do you mean that it's not lucky if you knew the ZBLL?

Anyhow, yes, it's lucky. I'm still a fan of the 20% rule.

 

[miniGOINGS]

I wouldn't call it lucky if you force it.

Do you mean that it's not lucky if you knew the ZBLL?

Anyhow, yes, it's lucky. I'm still a fan of the 20% rule.

Woudl that be the rule that If you have less than a 1/5 chance of getting it, it is considered lucky?

 

[Lt-UnReaL]

With COLL you have an ~8% chance of getting a PLL skip, in case anyone was wondering.

 

[miniGOINGS]

With COLL you have an ~8% chance of getting a PLL skip, in case anyone was wondering.

Unless you know multiple COLL algs depending on the permutation of the edges.

 

[blah]

With COLL you have an ~8% chance of getting a PLL skip, in case anyone was wondering.

Unless you know multiple COLL algs depending on the permutation of the edges.

That sounds vaguely familiar.

 

[Kian]

With COLL you have an ~8% chance of getting a PLL skip, in case anyone was wondering.

Unless you know multiple COLL algs depending on the permutation of the edges.

Does anybody actually do that? I wouldn't call that COLL anymore either, because you are taking into account the permutation of edges, which algs in COLL do not. Even though the algs would work as COLL algs, taking into account permutation of edges, in my view, would not really do justice to the acronym. It would be something altogether different, basically a ZBLL recognition.

 

[miniGOINGS]

With COLL you have an ~8% chance of getting a PLL skip, in case anyone was wondering.

Unless you know multiple COLL algs depending on the permutation of the edges.

Does anybody actually do that? I wouldn't call that COLL anymore either, because you are taking into account the permutation of edges, which algs in COLL do not.

Isn't that just ZBLL? Example: although I technically only know 2 look COLL/CMLL and 2 look ELL (I used this for LBL solves) I can do a certain algorithm which takes me to an easy case for the second look. In this way I am effecting the second look without actually solving it.

 

[cubeninjaIV]

my pb is 11.18 in that solve i encountered one of the few zb cases i knew
so since i worked for that pll skip it isnt lucky; but if i had a sune and got a pll skip it would have been lucky because i didnt know it was going to happen.
if that made any sense

 

[Weston]

It depends. DId you know that case as a ZBLL case or a COLL case?

If you had recognized the COLL case and the edge cycle, then no it would not be lucky.
If you only recognized the COLL case, then it is a little bit lucky.


But of course, you could also say that it's lucky that the case that you knew popped up.
but thats probably not what you're talking about.

 

[4Chan]

<--- ZBLL user.

Yes, it is lucky.
No, if you fully understand the case.

Simple enough, really.

 

[dbax0999]

I have to disagree with the statements that say its not lucky if you know the coll case will give you a PLL skip.

For example:
Do R U R' on a solved cube.

Just because you can see that doing R U' R' will give you an LL skip doesn't make it non-lucky.


I think you need to apply a different algorithm than you normally would apply for that case in order to make it non lucky

 

[riffz]

It depends. DId you know that case as a ZBLL case or a COLL case?

If you had recognized the COLL case and the edge cycle, then no it would not be lucky.
If you only recognized the COLL case, then it is a little bit lucky.


But of course, you could also say that it's lucky that the case that you knew popped up.
but thats probably not what you're talking about.

I knew the case was the correct COLL before I executed it. I'm not asking whether getting a PLL skip because you happened to perform the right COLL is lucky, because that's always the case with a PLL skip.

 

[blade740]

It's lucky if you only know one algorithm for the case. If you know two, and actually took the time to recognize which of the two would be better, I'd consider it "non-lucky"

 

[Kxg]

I have to disagree with the statements that say its not lucky if you know the coll case will give you a PLL skip.

For example:
Do R U R' on a solved cube.

Just because you can see that doing R U' R' will give you an LL skip doesn't make it non-lucky.


I think you need to apply a different algorithm than you normally would apply for that case in order to make it non lucky

There are multiple ways to solve cases. If you see what's going to happen and INTENTIONALLY do something to force easier finish, it's not that lucky. For example, if you solve a cross and after that you notice already made F2L pair - you could call that "lucky F2L pair". But, if you, while doing the cross, force that pair to connect and don't get screwed, it's not lucky anymore since you worked for it.

For the case you gave, you could solve it U' R' F R F' which doesn't give you LL skip anymore.

Also, it leaves you with OLL 37. Some algorithms give you PLL skip, while others don't. If you pick the right continuation intentionally, it's not lucky.

 

[trying-to-speedcube...]

Even if you know the ZBLL case, it's still lucky, because you're lucky that you know that case. When you know over 20% of ZBLL, getting a case you know is non-lucky, so the solve is non-lucky too. That's my opinion.

 

[riffz]

Well, I know 2 different algorithms for the double sune, and I can recognize when to use either one.

I really should learn all 4 double sune COLLs...

 

[Stefan]

part of the COLL "method" is to increase your odds of getting a PLL skip

The step after COLL is not PLL, so how could you skip it?