Integrating the Cubing Body with another sport in the future

[abunickabhi]

The WCA has been made to hold competitions for twisty puzzles and spread speedcubing. Even though speedcubing is very unique and has its own sporting nature. There are similar sports to which speedcubing does match and can possibly integrate with.

Some examples are like speedstacking, and we even use their timers because of a patent.

Chess is another sport which has a lot of parallels with Cubing, and there is a chance of both the sports getting integrated into a single body being called “mind sports”, say.

This integration might help solve some problems, of getting sponsorships, media attention, and establishing speedcubing as a sport.

I have already had a formal discussion on this topic on the WCA Forums: (I wanted to know the views of you guys on the SS Forum)
https://forum.worldcubeassociation....ng-body-with-another-sport-in-the-future/4328

 

[xyzzy]

The only activity (not even a "sport" per se) I can think of that cubing is related to is speedrunning. For that matter, speedsolving is basically just speedrunning, except with a physical object instead of a video game. AIUI, speedrunning generally involves moving fast and accurately, being able to react to upcoming events quickly, having canned responses to various situations, thinking ahead, etc. which all have strong parallels to speedcubing.

It's worth noting that speedrunning has a fair amount of eyeballs on it; consider for example the Games Done Quick events, showcasing speedruns and raising millions of dollars for charity every year. Then again, I'd say most people consider video games more fun than twisty puzzles, and speedrunning's audience includes not just speedrunners, but video game players in general, whereas speedcubing's audience is pretty much just other speedcubers.

 

[abunickabhi]

The only activity (not even a "sport" per se) I can think of that cubing is related to is speedrunning. For that matter, speedsolving is basically just speedrunning, except with a physical object instead of a video game. AIUI, speedrunning generally involves moving fast and accurately, being able to react to upcoming events quickly, having canned responses to various situations, thinking ahead, etc. which all have strong parallels to speedcubing.

It's worth noting that speedrunning has a fair amount of eyeballs on it; consider for example the Games Done Quick events, showcasing speedruns and raising millions of dollars for charity every year. Then again, I'd say most people consider video games more fun than twisty puzzles, and speedrunning's audience includes not just speedrunners, but video game players in general, whereas speedcubing's audience is pretty much just other speedcubers.

True speedrunning is a bit popular and bit more spectator friendly too. It is related to speedcubing a bit (except for the BLD and FMC events).

There are few cubers like Graham and Stanley who do stream speedrunning and are good speedrunners.
Canned responses are required in cubing as well, especially in 3x3 event.

 

[EngiNerdBrian]

I don’t think chess would work just given the environment of a chess tournament is much quieter, something like a library environment where as it seems cube noise is quite prominent in cubing competitions.

Perhaps Speed Chess could be integrated, speed running video games, and of course the obvious answer of sport stacking. Integrating these events could be a parallel or addition to the “cubing convention” idea proposed recently on the forums.

 

[qwr]

I don't think it will ever happen or needs to happen. Chess is way bigger than speed solving and has its own community. I don't see why chess tournament people will bother with speed solving or vice versa. I think speedrunning attracts a different audience too, people who are familiar with video games, which is a much broader audience and covers thousands of games. Speed stacking is the closest event but I don't see why the WCA needs to integrate with them when the WCA focuses on mainly twisty puzzles (and they got rid of magic partly because there's no "solving" to think about)

 

[Christopher Mowla]

I definitely agree that speedrunning and fewest moves require a similar mindset. (You basically have to memorize the game level and try all promising routes to minimize the win time . . . which should sound all too familiar with FMC!) Like FMC, speedrunning is all about patience and determination. (Last year, I actually become a mod of a game I have been playing on and off for about 20 years. But I didn't start speedrunning the game until after I found all of those short 4x4x4 parity algorithms, as I "didn't have the personality for it" before that. And I'm also first place in all individual level events in another game I have been playing on and off for also about 20 years!)

Chess is more related to those who are interested in "the art" of coming up with substeps to methods and comparing and contrasting the efficiency of different methods. And to perhaps calculate the maximum number of moves all substeps in a method will take for the worst of scrambles/positions (rather than finding the most efficient way to solve a particular scramble . . . generalizing and "seeing the bigger picture"); computing probabilities and god's number to simple puzzles like 15-puzzle, the pyraminx, etc. ; and proving puzzle theory-related theorems.

If I were to compare my impression of speedcubing to some type of game, it would be for games whose goal is to get a high score under a rushed time constraint. So I would say Tetris.

 

[qwr]

It depends on what kind of game you speedrun. On one extreme you have Mario Bros 1 which is so heavily optimized that top level competition is just about flawless execution, like cupstacking. On the other extreme you have heavily randomized games like Minecraft which require a lot of improvisation and quick decision making, making it more like a regular solve, although regular solves don't have nearly the amount of decisions that Minecraft speedruns incorporate. The act of routing a speedrun is like FMC, in that you are given a situation and you try the promising routes, but actually executing a speedrun is a situation where the timer is running and every second counts, unlike FMC where the main goal is coming up with a solution in one hour and the final time is secondary to the quality of the solution.

 

[Christopher Mowla]

It depends on what kind of game you speedrun. On one extreme you have Mario Bros 1 which is so heavily optimized that top level competition is just about flawless execution, like cupstacking.

Great point. And I know you're not saying what I am about to write, but obviously this doesn't equate to speedcubing because you never know what type of scramble you're going to get (that it's laid out for you . . . this type of speedrunning would actually be equivalent to executing a reverse scramble as fast as possible).

On the other extreme you have heavily randomized games like Minecraft which require a lot of improvisation and quick decision making, making it more like a regular solve, although regular solves don't have nearly the amount of decisions that Minecraft speedruns incorporate.

This reminds me to say this about what I wrote regarding comparing speedcubing to Tetris. Because with both, you have to memorize tricks to overcome obstacles quickly when they arise so that your overall efficiency is maintained (TPS in cubing). (But I guess that was obvious!)

But regarding

so that your overall efficiency is maintained

This may sound like speedrunning, but speedrunning (from my experience) doesn't demand that you be spontaneous as it does require you to being adaptable. Being adaptable doesn't help with speedcubing as nearly as much as luck does. But luck in speedrunning hardly ever works out in your favor in the longrun because someone else who actually knows the why will be able to beat your time soon enough. But we have seen in speedcubing that lucky solver's records were unbroken for years.

The act of routing a speedrun is like FMC, in that you are given a situation and you try the promising routes, but actually executing a speedrun is a situation where the timer is running and every second counts, unlike FMC where the main goal is coming up with a solution in one hour and the final time is secondary to the quality of the solution.

I guess it depends on your personality. If I were to actually participate in a FMC competition, I would feel that every second counts in that hour that I was given! (Because the more efficient I am, the more paths I can try, and the more confident I would be in the quality of the best solution.)

 

[abunickabhi]

I don’t think chess would work just given the environment of a chess tournament is much quieter, something like a library environment where as it seems cube noise is quite prominent in cubing competitions.

Perhaps Speed Chess could be integrated, speed running video games, and of course the obvious answer of sport stacking. Integrating these events could be a parallel or addition to the “cubing convention” idea proposed recently on the forums.

Yes there are many ideas of combining sports, and having cubing conventions added is a no-brainer.

Speed chess and speedcubing are quite similar, both test pattern recognition, and there is a lot of luck too since the action happens quite fast.

Classical chess and FMC do share some similarities. They can be tied up together if someone comes up with a proposal.

A lot of cubers, after the WCA competitions stopped last year, took to speedrunning to improve, as speedrunning can be done at home, and its quite similar. There is no need to go to a WCA competition. I feel speedrunning and speedstacking are similar to speedcubing, but they should not be integrated, as we do not have to memorise and fingertrick algorithms in speedrunning and speedstacking. Its more about muscle memory and reflexes.