If Fridrich wasn't invented, what do you think the WR time would be?

[Kirjava]

The point being?

You said most people at WC1982 didn't know what Fridrich was.

There were people at that competition using F2L. Jiri Fridrich was not one of them.

 

[megaminxwin]

You said most people at WC1982 didn't know what Fridrich was.

There were people at that competition using F2L. Jiri Fridrich was not one of them.

F2L, sure, but were they also using OLL and PLL? Probably not. I quote what I said earlier:

I'm also going to assume that Cross, F2L, OLL and PLL were all thought up by separate people around the globe. There's definite proof that the Cross and F2L were invented by David Singmaster and René Schoof, respectively. OLL and PLL shouldn't have been too hard to think up individually. These steps were just never combined into a method.

Cross and F2L, sure. But CF does not a CFOP make. I'm saying that C, F, O, and P all existed, sure, but CFOP didn't. Unlikely, sure, but we're in the realm of the hypothetical anyway, so why not?

 

[Kirjava]

F2L, sure, but were they also using OLL and PLL?

Hans Dockhorn and Anneke Treep were doing so in 1981. Guus Razoux Schultz was also well aware of F2L and CLL/ELL & OLL/PLL at this time. It is nowhere near a stretch to assume that it was being used.

Cross and F2L, sure. But CF does not a CFOP make. I'm saying that C, F, O, and P all existed, sure, but CFOP didn't. Unlikely, sure, but we're in the realm of the hypothetical anyway, so why not?

What point are you trying to make here? That CFOP in it's current form didn't exist in 1982? I never said it did.

 

[megaminxwin]

What point are you trying to make here? That CFOP in it's current form didn't exist in 1982? I never said it did.

Yeah, I should've made that clearer. Basically, in this strange, alternate universe, CFOP doesn't exist, but Cross, F2L, OLL and PLL do. All invented by different people, no one thinking to combine the method because (a) people are stupid or (b) some of the steps were never publicised very well at all.

Hans Dockhorn and Anneke Treep were doing so in 1981.

Huh. Really? That's actually pretty surprising. But considering they weren't at the competition, we can't really get any proof of CFOP being the fastest method from them, so it doesn't necessarily mean that CFOP is definitely the fastest method. Slower times at WC1982, sure, but couldn't that get faster without CFOP?

Bleh, I'm bored of this topic. Flame me over PM if you can be bothered continuing this.

 

[Kirjava]

we can't really get any proof of CFOP being the fastest method from them, so it doesn't necessarily mean that CFOP is definitely the fastest method

I almost can't believe what I'm reading.

 

[megaminxwin]

I almost can't believe what I'm reading.

Yeah, reading back, that was pretty stupid. Stupid, stupid, 2 hours ago me. *stops talking about entirely*

 

[qqwref]

Smart, but just because Fridrich published the method on her website, kickstarting the craze again, doesn't mean that it could've come back by other means. For example, Petrus published his method around the same time, so who's to say that he couldn't have started it again?

But the serious speedsolving craze really picked up around 2003, and it was due to Fridrich's site (AFAIK). It looks like both Fridrich's and Petrus's websites date back to 1997, so it wasn't like the creation of either site started the new cubing movement by itself. Instead, modern speedcubing basically started with a few motivated young people learning from the old masters (over the internet and through coincedence), and without Fridrich's site that may not have happened. "What if CFOP had never been invented" is a pretty unlikely hypothetical, but I think if there was that level of lack of cube knowledge it would have been even harder to start up a community later on, something which is already incredibly difficult after a craze has been dormant for some 20 years!

EDIT: Also, it looks like TwistyPuzzles.com managed to get started without Fridrich's help at all, so it could've restarted through there, but it looks like a [citation needed] kind of thing. Still interesting though.

Well, I remember that while I was really starting to get interested in cubes (so maybe 2005ish?) it was more or less a big database of puzzles, intended mainly for the kind of people who were interested in collecting and solving puzzles for the mental exercise of it, similar to the people who are interested in other types of puzzles such as metal disentanglement and sliding piece puzzles. Very few people there were interested in speed until well after the speedcubing community took off. I think that if the Fridrich method hadn't existed, it'd still be likely that twistypuzzles would exist, but I don't think they'd have thought to organize a serious speedcubing competition - just like how we don't see any competitions in disentanglement or sliding piece puzzles.

 

[insane569]

I would be the WR holder with a time of 15.69 seconds using Petrus. Go Petrus!!!

 

[tx789]

22.95, maybe it would of never came back
if it did 5-8 sec then

 

[Cubenovice]

I would be the WR holder with a time of 15.69 seconds using Petrus. Go Petrus!!!

IIRC Charlie uses Petrus: http://www.worldcubeassociation.org/results/p.php?i=2007COOP01