I can NOT understand the concept of block building

[olekosun]

Hello everyone

My cubing history is a little messed up. I've been cubing for a half year now, and still average 1 minute. (sometimes, but rarely, I'd sub 1 minute), with.... Layer By Layer.

It's the only method I can perform 'this fast'. Keyhole method turns out to be slower for me, intuitive F2L (some of the basic cases) isn't really my stuff, Dan Brown's method is slower, so I've been sticking to LBL.

However, I once tried Petrus/Roux. The problem I've been encountering was the following: I am a complete noob at block building. I tried again, and tried again, and watched videos, and this and that, but nothing works for me.

Sure I can build blocks by placing a corner and adding an edge just like I do with LBL, but that aint real block building, it's just plain fake. :fp I really want to learn Roux or Petrus. Anyone here who has the golden solution for me?

Thanks very much in advance!

 

[CuBeOrDiE]

There isn't too much of a "concept." This isn't Fridrich where there are algorithms to refer to; block building is intuitive. The "golden solution" is practice and http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/. Hope it helps .

 

[joey]

It takes time.

 

[waffle=ijm]

I can't get block building either...too difficult

 

[jms_gears1]

There isn't too much of a "concept." This isn't Fridrich where there are algorithms to refer to; block building is intuitive. The "golden solution" is practice and http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/. Hope it helps .

umm do you know anything or do you just randomly type and hope it sounds smart?

blockbuilding is nothing but a concept...

anyway the easiest way to explain block building is to go through an example.

scramble: R2 L2 U2 F' L R B F' L U2 R' F' R' F2 B2 U2 D2 L' U L2 B2 F' R2 F D2

im scrambling with white on top green in front, and my blocks are orange on L blue in F and red on R (i use roux)

ok so first, block building (well as far as cubing is concerned) is just taking pieces of the cube and putting them together intuitively. The basis for putting pieces together is making pairs.

These pairs can be either corner edge, or center edge.

the first pair i can see is one thats already paired together which is an edge and center pair with the red center and BR edge.

I also see that i can make another pair that matches up with the block in three moves, and insert it in two.

to make the pair:
UF'D
1x2x2:
xU'F

now the remaining pair is in UFR and DF (corner and edge, respectively)

i would pair them up with:
U2(M2l')
then place them with:
B

for FB i did
UF'DxU'FU2M2rB (9)

one thing to note is that a lot of people think that using F2L style block building is 'bad' or 'cheating' its not, or at least not when its useful. however there are times when there are better ways to handle situations.

ill do the SB now.

y2U'(RM) : first pair
U'M2U'RU : 1X2X2 block
RU'M2U'RUr'U'r : last pair

theres no solid way for someone to teach you blockbuilding, because there is no real algorithms. You have to play around with the cube and figure things out for yourself.

 

[olekosun]

There isn't too much of a "concept." This isn't Fridrich where there are algorithms to refer to; block building is intuitive. The "golden solution" is practice and http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/. Hope it helps .

umm do you know anything or do you just randomly type and hope it sounds smart?

blockbuilding is nothing but a concept...

anyway the easiest way to explain block building is to go through an example.

scramble: R2 L2 U2 F' L R B F' L U2 R' F' R' F2 B2 U2 D2 L' U L2 B2 F' R2 F D2

im scrambling with white on top green in front, and my blocks are orange on L blue in F and red on R (i use roux)

ok so first, block building (well as far as cubing is concerned) is just taking pieces of the cube and putting them together intuitively. The basis for putting pieces together is making pairs.

These pairs can be either corner edge, or center edge.

the first pair i can see is one thats already paired together which is an edge and center pair with the red center and BR edge.

I also see that i can make another pair that matches up with the block in three moves, and insert it in two.

to make the pair:
UF'D
1x2x2:
xU'F

now the remaining pair is in UFR and DF (corner and edge, respectively)

i would pair them up with:
U2(M2l')
then place them with:
B

for FB i did
UF'DxU'FU2M2rB (9)

one thing to note is that a lot of people think that using F2L style block building is 'bad' or 'cheating' its not, or at least not when its useful. however there are times when there are better ways to handle situations.

ill do the SB now.

y2U'(RM) : first pair
U'M2U'RU : 1X2X2 block
RU'M2U'RUr'U'r : last pair

theres no solid way for someone to teach you blockbuilding, because there is no real algorithms. You have to play around with the cube and figure things out for yourself.

Thanks very much for your effort! It cleared some things up, I'll play around with the cube for some time, and see how things will work out.

Thanks again.

 

[AngeL]

Honestly, you'll be much better at blockbuilding if you find the tricks for yourself, because it's SUPPOSED to be intuitive. I know that's incredibly frustrating to hear, because I'm kinda still in that phase myself. It sucks and you'll be very disheartened for a while, but it pays off in the end. I know my understanding of the cube has increased more since learning Roux than in the entire rest of the time I've been cubing combined. Not only that, but if you ever go back to CFOP, you'll find it much easier to force lucky cases and make Xcrosses and the like, because your blockbuilding will be strong.

Anyway, the absolute best thing you can do to help your blocks is to put away the timer. Don't time yourself for a month, do nothing but make blocks and take as much time as you need. Take an hour for one block if you need to, but make them as efficiently as you possibly can. Speed will come with time, but you have to practice good blockbuilding before you can be fast.

Something else that will help is finding all the pieces that will go into your block before you do any twists. Once you know where they all are, just look at them for a while and visualize ways of pairing them up. Eventually, you'll start to see patterns and tricks you can use to do them quickly and efficiently.

Practice, practice, practice. I've been at Roux for a month and a half and I'm only at :40 right now


Edit: Know your color scheme inside and out, so you don't even have to think about where pieces should go in relation to each other.

 

[Matt S]

Anyway, the absolute best thing you can do to help your blocks is to put away the timer. Don't time yourself for a month, do nothing but make blocks and take as much time as you need. Take an hour for one block if you need to, but make them as efficiently as you possibly can. Speed will come with time, but you have to practice good blockbuilding before you can be fast.

This is really important. Trying to go fast before you have a really good feel for block-building will ingrain bad habits and just limit you.

 

[brunson]

It's off the subject of block building, but from your original post... any time you add something new to your solve, F2L, full PLL, keyhole, etc. it's going to slow you down until you practice enough.

 

[jms_gears1]

Anyway, the absolute best thing you can do to help your blocks is to put away the timer. Don't time yourself for a month, do nothing but make blocks and take as much time as you need. Take an hour for one block if you need to, but make them as efficiently as you possibly can. Speed will come with time, but you have to practice good blockbuilding before you can be fast.

This is really important. Trying to go fast before you have a really good feel for block-building will ingrain bad habits and just limit you.

+1
i was stuck at the 20 second 'barrier' and no matter how much i practiced i couldnt break it.

I decided to put away my timer for a month, and did nothing but work on my solves, and look-ahead, finding new tricks for blocks etc. Now im at around the 18 second mark. And i think more practice with the new stuff im doing will get me sub-17.

Heres how i would practice:
while(1==1){
Dont time just learn2block, set a limit like 1 month, then after that see if youve improved.

if yes{
practice like crazy get used to the imporvements.
}
else{
repeat
}
repeat
}

 

[olekosun]

Thanks very much everyone.

A wonder happened and I've managed to perform some full Petrus solves on my own.

I do all Petrus steps, and when the F2L is finished, i perform the algorithm B U' F' U B' U' F U2 to position the corners correctly. Then I do the sune till the top layer is completed, and then I use the algorithm F2 U L R' F2 L' R U F2. I know, it's a very basic algorithm but I'll be temporarily using this, cause at this stage it doesn't matter how slow/basic this algorithm is cause I'm slow anyway cause I'm new to this method. Later I'll learn the H-perm.

But some other questions are: beginner's method is still faster than using Petrus, just for now. I'll know I'll probably be faster if I get used to this method. But; what'll be the average I can achieve with the method described above, approximately? Should I stick to Petrus and ditch the beginner's method forever?

2nd question: Would my time be better with Petrus F2L + last layer the way I do it now? So; is Petrus F2L faster than beginner's F2L?

And last: the phase where I have to check whether the corners are correctly positioned seems to take an age, will I get faster the more I get used to it?

Thanks again!

 

[Chapuunka]

I do all Petrus steps, and when the F2L is finished, i perform the algorithm B U' F' U B' U' F U2 to position the corners correctly.

>> x (R2) D2 (R U R') D2 (R U' R) Does the exact same thing except with preservation of orientation so much faster.

Then I do the sune till the top layer is completed, and then I use the algorithm F2 U L R' F2 L' R U F2.

>> (R2 U) (R U R' U') (R' U') (R' U R') Does the same thing so much faster and easier to learn

Later I'll learn the H-perm.

>> M2 U M2 U2 M2 U M2 Super easy to learn, 5 seconds.

But some other questions are: beginner's method is still faster than using Petrus, just for now. I'll know I'll probably be faster if I get used to this method. But; what'll be the average I can achieve with the method described above, approximately?

>> I got low 40s easily before I learned Fridich, Erik A has a sub-20 avg with a LBL method.

Should I stick to Petrus and ditch the beginner's method forever?

>> Yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes.

And last: the phase where I have to check whether the corners are correctly positioned seems to take an age, will I get faster the more I get used to it?

>> Orient then permute. Much easier.